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Is Higher Education a Scam?

Ohiosam

Ohiosam

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My #2 son will graduate from Carnegie Mellon in the winter with a Masters in electrical engineering(Bachelors from YSU). He'll have about the same debt as I incurred at that age to buy a 78 acre farm. If I paid for my farm he should have no trouble paying for his education.
 
Ohiosam

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
12,038
205
Mahoning Co.
Jackalope said:
:) You should really watch the video man... It goes over that point also. I've seen you make two very well stated points that were in the video.
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I watched most of it and agree with much of it. My point is that you need to play their game smart. If you do you can come out with a marketable skill and minimal debt.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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Ohiosam said:
I watched most of it and agree with much of it. My point is that you need to play their game smart. If you do you can come out with a marketable skill and minimal debt.
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Correct... Sadly the majority of them aren't doing that.... We saw what a minority of bad loans could do to a housing market and national economy. Imagine what a majority of sub prime education loans are going to do? That's the reason the government took over student loan lending from banks. It was and still is the next bubble and they know it..
 
hickslawns

hickslawns

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Buckmaster, Huckleberry, Ohiosam and all those in this position should be commended. Those with debt I will not bash as it more times than not is a necessary evil. We have some debt from Erin going back to school the last few years to get her RN. Despite having the best two years our business has had the last two years, when your wife quits a job making close to $40k to go to school while working part time (think she made $6-8k/year in school) we had a BIG gap to fill. Three years and $27k is what we incurred. Not bad considering her income was reduced by about $30k/yr for three years. Not all that was made up by me though, a lot of it was frugal living, scholarships, and partial tuition reimbursement from the hospital. Was it worth it in her case? Yep. She is happy. She enjoys what she does and you can't put a price on happiness. I was also forced to put myself into a more managerial role and do more house work and shuffling of kids. Can't take those memories away and I feel our company has done better since I stepped out of a "foreman" role and into a "management" role. That is another discussion though.

You guys hit some key points. Jesse mentioned following through and completing the task despite the BS. I think a lot of employers in higher paying jobs want to see the ability to stick to the task at hand and complete it. On the other side of that coin though, my sister loves hiring someone with a 2 year degree that is amazing at what they do. She can hire them through her company and get the same work out of them as those with a 4yr degree but they are not paid as much. Her company is a Fortune 500 company and they have a good mix of 2yr/4yr employees from what I can tell. At least in her office. Big companies know this and hire accordingly in my opinion. I guess sometimes the extra 2 yrs does make a difference. However, in my line of work it doesn't make a hill of beans difference. I have had two attorneys work for us. Yep. One on the parking lot sweeping crew, and another on the landscaping crew. Both of them were out of work with bills to pay. Years and years of college with no jobs available in their fields. Where do they end up? Hicks Lawn Services making the same money (or less) than some of my guys that have HS diplomas, GED's, and I have had a few with neither. Some of these guys have been the hardest working, most loyal employees I have had. Sad part is, the ones with minimal education have also had a tougher go at life often times and trouble with divorces/child support/drinking/DUI's/etc has led to their parting ways with our business for one reason or another. Lots of variables in play here, but I guess I am sort of playing devil's advocate a little bit and showing both sides of the coin.
 
jagermeister

jagermeister

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I've read through most of the posts but I'll admit, not all of them. And I don't really have the time to watch the video, but I've seen several like it over the past 12 months so I think I've got the gist of it.

Here are my thoughts... COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. However, that is not the message that is given to teenagers these days. They are all told that they will amount to absolutely nothing if they don't attend college, but that really isn't the truth. I'm the only one from a family of five to attend college, and the others are all doing just fine with their lives. When kids go to college that really shouldn't, the end result is usually pretty terrible... drop outs, or useless degrees, and piles of unnecessary debt.

That being said, I wouldn't trade my college EXPERIENCE for anything in the world. Sure, between my wife and I, we pay over $1300 per month for student loan debt, which sucks complete ass but I would still do it all over again in a heartbeat. I grew as a person in college, I traveled the east coast playing baseball, I met some amazing friends, obtained invaluable career contacts, and I met my wife... what more could I ask for? For me, I considered college to be a necessary investment... whether the cost of the investment was fair or not, there really was nothing I could do about it. We don't make a ton of money, but we do ok... we have a bunch of fuggin bills to Great Lakes and Sallie Mae, but we do ok. I'm not happy it costed so much, but I'm definitely glad that I went. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be where I am today had I not gone to college.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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DJK Frank 16 said:
Came across this today, sounds like the more recent studies are starting to realize the same thing Joe....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43139089/ns/business-personal_finance/

"It's important that you go to college and get a (bachelor's degree), but it's almost three to four times more important what you take," said Anthony Carnevale, director of Georgetown's Center on Education and the Workforce.
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Yes. But they are still perpetuating a large misconception. While People with a 4 year degree do make more on average it's all in how you look at it...

Bob and Sam have been with company A for 2 years doing the same job.... Bob has a 4 year degree, Rob does not.... Bob is making "More"..... The universities claim this is due to his degree. But that's only half truth... See Bob with his degree is given credit for 6 years.. His degree and his 2 years there.... Sam on the other hand only gets credit for his 2 years..... Truth is Bob has a 4 year head start on Sam... And therefor can NOT be compared equally... But they do try to compare them as a 2 = 2..

What would happen if Sam started at company A entry level at the same time Bob started his degree.... 4 years later Bob gets a job with Sam who has been there 4 years... Guess who's going to get paid more.... Is it the guy with 4 years experience under his belt... Or the new college kid... Both are now given credit for their 4 years... However, i guarantee the employee who has been there 4 years already, will be getting paid more than new hire bob..

And that's if Sam stayed there and didn't bounce... It's well known that changing companies increases your salary better than staying with one single company and waiting on raises..

So Say Sam worked for company B for 2 years at entry level, Then took a Job with Company A for a 20% pay raise.... and has worked for said company another 2 years for a total of 4... Now new hire Bob is hired with his 4 year degree... It's a very very safe bet Sam will be getting paid more than bob...

This does not work in industry's that require advanced degrees "accounting, law, chemical, etc" But works wonderfully in a career like IT.. Why, simply being the advancements in technology is constantly moving... What I learned 3 years ago i might use 10% of today... Products, technology, tools, go obsolete everyday.. The entire career of IT is a constant learning path. You stop learning, you get left in the dust..
 
finelyshedded

finelyshedded

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Jackalope said:
Yes. But they are still perpetuating a large misconception. While People with a 4 year degree do make more on average it's all in how you look at it...

Bob and Sam have been with company A for 2 years doing the same job.... Bob has a 4 year degree, Rob does not.... Bob is making "More"..... The universities claim this is due to his degree. But that's only half truth... See Bob with his degree is given credit for 6 years.. His degree and his 2 years there.... Sam on the other hand only gets credit for his 2 years..... Truth is Bob has a 4 year head start on Sam... And therefor can NOT be compared equally... But they do try to compare them as a 2 = 2..

What would happen if Sam started at company A entry level at the same time Bob started his degree.... 4 years later Bob gets a job with Sam who has been there 4 years... Guess who's going to get paid more.... Is it the guy with 4 years experience under his belt... Or the new college kid... Both are now given credit for their 4 years... However, i guarantee the employee who has been there 4 years already, will be getting paid more than new hire bob..

And that's if Sam stayed there and didn't bounce... It's well known that changing companies increases your salary better than staying with one single company and waiting on raises..

So Say Sam worked for company B for 2 years at entry level, Then took a Job with Company A for a 20% pay raise.... and has worked for said company another 2 years for a total of 4... Now new hire Bob is hired with his 4 year degree... It's a very very safe bet Sam will be getting paid more than bob...

This does not work in industry's that require advanced degrees "accounting, law, chemical, etc" But works wonderfully in a career like IT.. Why, simply being the advancements in technology is constantly moving... What I learned 3 years ago i might use 10% of today... Products, technology, tools, go obsolete everyday.. The entire career of IT is a constant learning path. You stop learning, you get left in the dust..
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...............and, when Sam say's. "Hey Bob! What do you say we go out for a few beers after work!" Bob will say," I wish I could man! But I got 50K worth of student loans to pay off and besides, I'm working 4 hours a night at Walgreens after work TOO help cut it down some." Thought I'd throw that in there TOO Joe!lol
 
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