Physical Asset Investments.

[Jackalope]

One thing that I've been doing a lot of thinking about here recently is investment in inflation-proof non-market impacted liquidable assets. There are the typical commodities such as physical silver and gold that hedge inflation and do best in down markets. But I've also considered older Firearms as they seem to do very well when held on to for a couple decades. I would categorize these as any firearm that was made prior to the inclusion of plastic or polymer as materials. I know some here have hedged the inflation monster using firearms as an investment. , I've also considered undeveloped land but that seems to be hit-or-miss when the market makes downturn the liquidity due to purchasing restrictions and valuation of that land suffers.

 

[cspot]

Well if you buy guns and buy land, then you can do alot of hunting. Who the hell cares if they increase in value.

 

[Ohiosam]

There are problems with investment in things like precious metals and gems, coins, guns, art etc and that is storing them securely. Theft, fire, flood are real concerns and the cost of safes, security systems, insurance etc can eat returns. Also with things like guns you can’t ignore the risk of government regulations harming future values. If you do decide to invest in such things the best advise I’ve heard is buy what you like not just what you think is a good investment.

Real estate is a whole different animal, I’d look at real estate that cash flows. That covers your taxes and insurance. Rental property, farmland, timberland etc. Look just past where the current activity is and for property on busier roads that might become commercial corridors. Of course real estate is less liquid. But an auctioneer can turn it into cash in a couple months.

 

["J"]

First off I’d have your FIL build one each chevelles for his grandkids college tuition

 

[Jackalope]

There are problems with investment in things like precious metals and gems, coins, guns, art etc and that is storing them securely. Theft, fire, flood are real concerns and the cost of safes, security systems, insurance etc can eat returns. Also with things like guns you can’t ignore the risk of government regulations harming future values. If you do decide to invest in such things the best advise I’ve heard is buy what you like not just what you think is a good investment.

Real estate is a whole different animal, I’d look at real estate that cash flows. That covers your taxes and insurance. Rental property, farmland, timberland etc. Look just past where the current activity is and for property on busier roads that might become commercial corridors. Of course real estate is less liquid. But an auctioneer can turn it into cash in a couple months.

Thanks Sam. The wife and I have solid plans for things like 401k and IRAs but as you know those are all ties to market fluctuations and the strength of the dollar. Things like Silver \ gold tend to do better in a crappy market or dollar condition. You always hear people say to diversify but its always with other investment products such as bonds etc. You never really hear too much about diversifying outside of the stock, bond, market offerings and in to things that are immune to or counteract a market downfall. While a growth on investment will be nice my primary concern is hedging inflation and dollar devaluation. In my lifetime china and or russia will continue to dominate world markets, America will continue to slip as the worlds foremost superpower. How bad that will get is yet to be seen however it is a guarantee that it will continue. While longterm investments in a portfolio such as a 401k has proven to provide great gains over time this may not always be the case once another dominant economic power overtakes us.

The spot price on an ounce of gold in 1976 was $133. Back then that $133 had the same buying power as $598 dollars does today. So if you just crammed it in a coffee can and brought it out today it would be like you put $13 in the can back then. However if you bought that ounce if gold it would have hedged the $464 in inflation but also be worth $1,310 today which equates to $295 1976 dollars. Not too shabby.

You do raise an interesting point with expenses on insurance and security however and that too must be take in to account.

 

[Jackalope]

First off I’d have your FIL build one each chevelles for his grandkids college tuition

Now you're thinking. He and I do know a guy in southern Ohio that owns over 60 completely restored Chevelles. He owned some franchise fast food restaurants and bought them as retirement investments. worth between 40 and 80k each.

 

["J"]

Now you're thinking. He and I do know a guy in southern Ohio that owns over 60 completely restored Chevelles. He owned some franchise fast food restaurants and bought them as retirement investments. worth between 40 and 80k each.

Knew of a guy who once bought a 60’s Supe Bee and parked it in his garage, custom cover over it. Never drove it. In 78 it had 60miles on it. That was both his kids college tuition.....

 

[hickslawns]

Don't rule out tangible assets that store fairly easily: Coins. Here are a few pretty solid coins I've had recommended to me. Keep in mind, these were suggested to me. I did my own homework before buying any. I am NOT a coin expert. Do your own homework. I've found a safety deposit box to be the safest/easiest way to store them and they are not in my home. The quality seems to be pretty important. I've also bought some at auctions which were not graded for the quality but were bought well under recommended buying prices. I've considered having some of them graded. It does cost some money to have them shipped and graded.

Here are a few:
Panama Pacific gold Dollar MS65, $20 Saint Gaudens brilliant uncirculated MS 63, Gold Dollar proof MS 65, $20 Liberty Coin MS65

 

[Buckmaster]

I have an certified autographed Jim Brown rookie card. PSA 6 and the certified autograph is PSA 10.

That's a different alternative.

I also went out and bought ever LeBron James rookie card during his rookie season.
We'll re-visit value in about 20 more years.

I have some #1 issue comic books and late 80's Nascar trading cards too.

Bottom line is compounding interest from stocks, land, and a few tangible equities.

I'll rely mostly on my house and 401k it appears.

 

[Jackalope]

Thanks guys. While collectable items are a great investment in good times I've really been trying to concentrate on assets that perform in a recession or depression. Numistic values really take a hit in a down economy as the majority of collectors rely on excess funds to fuel their hobby. Coins, cards, art, and other things are usually good long term investments for good times ahead, but if you need to liquidate them during a recession the return will likely be far from favorable compared to an up economy.

 

[giles]

How “rough” of time are you thinking here? Food, seeds and water are worth more then any of the other things listed IMO. Also a much better chance of needing them in a natural disaster type situation. Another benefit of food and seed is that you can rotate it and nothing goes to waste. Worst that happens is you pay more to restock if market increases. BUT, if SHTF...you can and will own anything you want.

I can go further in depth if wanted, but I prefer a face to face for those talks. Or, I could be reading this completely wrong and you are liking to make money.

 

[Jamie]

I think one of the biggest things people overlook for long term financial security is simply staying out of debt, i.e. keep debt to a minimum. for most of us our home is the single biggest investment we ever make. the sooner you own your home, the more financially secure you are. sure we have other retirement investments, but we paid off our house last October and it only took us 15 years. was nice to be "out of debt" for the first time in my life. with more disposable income to work with, I considered the same things as you. precious metals, coins, guns, etc. I came to the realization that land made the most sense as it will serve a dual purpose. a solid place to hunt and another investment in our future that won't be much affected by the markets. so I went out and signed my life away again on Monday. we closed on 65 acres of recreational land in Licking county. has good, marketable timber, excellent thick cover, enough tillable acreage to remain in CAUV, obscene deer numbers, turkeys, too. I won't ever lose money on this chunk of ground. and there was a 180" deer killed on the property. at least that's what the listing said. if times get tough, I can always lease it to out of state trophy deer hunters.

 

[Jackalope]

How “rough” of time are you thinking here? Food, seeds and water are worth more then any of the other things listed IMO. Also a much better chance of needing them in a natural disaster type situation. Another benefit of food and seed is that you can rotate it and nothing goes to waste. Worst that happens is you pay more to restock if market increases. BUT, if SHTF...you can and will own anything you want.

I can go further in depth if wanted, but I prefer a face to face for those talks. Or, I could be reading this completely wrong and you are liking to make money.

Hedging inflation and downturns in the economy. Not really looking at the total collapse prepper situation. There are a lot of older people well past retirement age working today due to losses during the 2008 recession, collapse of Enron, Burnie Madoff etc. . People saw their retirements cut in half and are forced to still work today. I don't want everything reliant on stocks and bonds or tied to the US financial system. Keeping cash is stupid because it becomes more and more worthless with every passing day. If you put $1,000 in a savings account in 2008 today it may still say $1,000 but really its only $861 due to inflation. However if you bought 100oz of silver it would have cost you $961 and that same 100 oz would be worth $1,642. You not only hedged the $175 loss from inflation but gained $506 or a 52% roi.

 

[giles]

Hedging inflation and downturns in the economy. Not really looking at the total collapse prepper situation. There are a lot of older people well past retirement age working today due to losses during the 2008 recession, collapse of Enron, Burnie Madoff etc. . People saw their retirements cut in half and are forced to still work today. I don't want everything reliant on stocks and bonds or tied to the US financial system. Keeping cash is stupid because it becomes more and more worthless with every passing day. If you put $1,000 in a savings account in 2008 today it may still say $1,000 but really its only $861 due to inflation. However if you bought 100oz of silver it would have cost you $961 and that same 100 oz would be worth $1,642. You not only hedged the $175 loss from inflation but gained $506 or a 52% roi.

I understand what you’re saying. What has changed for me is “worth”. Things that have worth to me nowadays has very little to do with dollars.

Much like Jamie, my next big purchase will be more land.

 

["J"]

I think one of the biggest things people overlook for long term financial security is simply staying out of debt, i.e. keep debt to a minimum. for most of us our home is the single biggest investment we ever make. the sooner you own your home, the more financially secure you are. sure we have other retirement investments, but we paid off our house last October and it only took us 15 years. was nice to be "out of debt" for the first time in my life. with more disposable income to work with, I considered the same things as you. precious metals, coins, guns, etc. I came to the realization that land made the most sense as it will serve a dual purpose. a solid place to hunt and another investment in our future that won't be much affected by the markets. so I went out and signed my life away again on Monday. we closed on 65 acres of recreational land in Licking county. has good, marketable timber, excellent thick cover, enough tillable acreage to remain in CAUV, obscene deer numbers, turkeys, too. I won't ever lose money on this chunk of ground. and there was a 180" deer killed on the property. at least that's what the listing said. if times get tough, I can always lease it to out of state trophy deer hunters.

Congrats to you and the Mrs, Jamie....

 

[Buckmaster]

That's exciting Jamie. That's a solid investment even if you are paying interest on it.

 

[hickslawns]

Ironic you say this. Gold and silver don't really increase in value. They are constant. They are more a measure of what the dollar is doing. BUT, like you said if they are constant and the dollar continues to fall due to inflation (i.e. it takes more dollars to buy what was once lesser amount of dollars) something of constant value is safe.

 

[jagermeister]

I think one of the biggest things people overlook for long term financial security is simply staying out of debt, i.e. keep debt to a minimum. for most of us our home is the single biggest investment we ever make. the sooner you own your home, the more financially secure you are. sure we have other retirement investments, but we paid off our house last October and it only took us 15 years. was nice to be "out of debt" for the first time in my life. with more disposable income to work with, I considered the same things as you. precious metals, coins, guns, etc. I came to the realization that land made the most sense as it will serve a dual purpose. a solid place to hunt and another investment in our future that won't be much affected by the markets. so I went out and signed my life away again on Monday. we closed on 65 acres of recreational land in Licking county. has good, marketable timber, excellent thick cover, enough tillable acreage to remain in CAUV, obscene deer numbers, turkeys, too. I won't ever lose money on this chunk of ground. and there was a 180" deer killed on the property. at least that's what the listing said. if times get tough, I can always lease it to out of state trophy deer hunters.

This is my approach. Get out of debt as soon as possible and try to stay that way. All the while putting money into 401k and IRAs. When I start buying tangible assets it will be in the form of silver, gold, or land...not necessarily in that order.

I don't really look at guns as investments. I just like to buy them. And I consider them great heirloom items. Buying them as an investment assumes there will be someone willing to buy them for more than you paid for them, years or decades down the road. That may or may not be the case.

 

[Jackalope]

Silver dipped to almost $14.30 an ounce yesterday and rebounded to $14.40 at the close. Today it's managed to climb back to $14.71 and is still a hell of a buy at the moment. If you look at sites like Apmex, JMbullion, Kitco etc they all offer a special one time offer to new customers of 10 ounces at spot with no premium and free shipping. You 're not going to get any better than that. I HATE paying a premium on metals as it's a fluff number that varies wildly. "Premium" is the price added to the cost of the metal supposedly for minting and selling the metal, they also roll numismatic or "collectors" value into that. I find that those large distributors like to hedge their losses with premiums. They know people will buy when prices are low, so when the prices dip you will see the premiums rise. Total BS if you ask me. That's why being able to buy at spot is a great idea. You are paying for the value market of the metal and that's it. For example, the 1oz silver prospector round cash price right now is 16.38 but spot is 14.71. That's a 1.61 per coin "premium". Buying the new customer 10 coin deal at spot puts you at $16.10 positive value right off the bat.

 

[Bigslam51]

I remember about 8 years ago silver was around $30 an ounce. I probably should start buying more.