TSI, Forestry, EQUIP

[at1010]

Ok, so you just bought the farm of your dreams. If you are like most of us, you had to sacrifice to buy the farm and now you are stretched thin - hoping to find a way to balance pleasure, hobbies and hopefully some sources of income. So what is next?

If the farm has timber:

One of the first things I would do, if I could start it all over, would be to have a FREE state forester out on my property. These state foresters can help you to evaluate your current timber value, areas that need thinned, areas that need treated, etc. This will end up being your forestry plan. You can take this plan, then apply for tax reduction programs - such as - The Ohio Forestry Tax law, or CAUV. You can also use this to apply for federal EQUIP programs. These can help to mitigate the burden of cost, when removing invasives, putting in water bars, etc. based on the forestry plan recommendations.

The state foresters are free and from my experiences extremely good at balancing future timber best practices with those who have wildlife goals as well. Key here is to be upfront with your goals prior to being in the middle of the forest.

I personally have a private forestry plan as well. This gentleman helps any timber quotes that help to ensure that I don't "get taken to the cleaners" by a logger. The forester will take a small % of the profits of a timber harvest, but WELL worth the effort - to ensure no high grading or unwanted timber practices are done without my consent. I have read many horror stories of terrible logging methods that have been done, without a forester being on sight, marking trees, etc. I highly recommend doing your homework on this as it could save you and your children thousands of dollars, as well as set you up for decades of future income producing timber stands.

Hope you all enjoy this and have a blessed afternoon.

AT

 

[Smawgunner2]

We're in the OFTL....I swear I don't understand how the State makes money off of it but hey, if I get my property taxes cut in half by cutting some grapevine and Autumn Olive...I'm good with that.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Likely having our first timber cruise this spring. It's time.

 

[at1010]

Likely having our first timber cruise this spring. It's time.

I can’t wait to harvest some. I am a few years behind you. Need to get my TOH treated a bit better. Every neighbor of mine that has cut timber, hasn’t immediately started sewing and holding more deer. I just cannot wait to cut this one bottom that happens to butt up against a 2 acre foodplot. With SW or SE wind - it is absolutely going to be “killer”.

 

[CJD3]

Be sure and discuss the aftermath...
Skid trails should be dressed after work is completed. Small streams bridged, sediment controlled.
Tree tops should be cut down to 4-5 ft. height or "positioned" as desired. ( or sell off the tops for fire wood. )

I've been through it a few times now. Having a plan for the tops, skid trails and even the landing will help.
Send out a request for bids with a description of the select cut trees. Top dollar is nice but not always best.Check the guys out your considering.

 

[Buckmaster]

I made more money selling firewood over the years then I did straight timber.

 

[at1010]

Be sure and discuss the aftermath...
Skid trails should be dressed after work is completed. Small streams bridged, sediment controlled.
Tree tops should be cut down to 4-5 ft. height or "positioned" as desired. ( or sell off the tops for fire wood. )

I've been through it a few times now. Having a plan for the tops, skid trails and even the landing will help.
Send out a request for bids with a description of the select cut trees. Top dollar is nice but not always best.Check the guys out your considering.

This is a great point - i am curious did you use a forester?

This is a great point by CJD3, these are things that a forester (a good one at least) will also ensure are in the contract. He/she should also see the sight before, mark timber, and see sight once job in completed to again make sure it is done per the contract. The landowner can see things like ruts but I am not comfortable recognizing a professional assessment on collateral tree damage - that a forester will be able to notice.

Another great thing our forester brings to the table is he does this for a living full time, and will get three quotes from loggers that are well respected and know for good work. Ones that he knows and trust.

As for the tree tops, this is all bout goals. There is not much better cover for whitetails and food then fresh cut tree tops. The tops also work very well to allow new growth forests to emerge without allow the new seedlings to be as susceptible to browse by deer, rabbits, etc.

All part of the goals the goals the landowner want to achieve. These are absolutely great adds by CJD3 - Thank you for the awesome points and perspective!! Happy New Year Sir!

 

[at1010]

I made more money selling firewood over the years then I did straight timber.

Care to elaborate on why? Maybe you are just one firewood cutting machine!!?!!

My neighbor (35 acres) has cut his place twice (yes he has trees still) - it was 50+ year old growth. Mostly yellow poplar, red/white oaks, a few walnut (not veneer logs). He made 22K the first cut 5 years ago, and around 19K the second select cut. Not bad considering the second cut was this year - timber values were not the best. So in 6 years he did around 45K (grossed less per paying forester and uncle Sam) and with proper timber management, he should be setup again to cut in 10-20 years.

I know every situation is extremely varying but I would love to learn more about your experience as i know you have had property for many many years.

Thank you all!

 

[Buckmaster]

$50-75 bucks per timber stick versus $180 per cord for the tops. Make a little on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[at1010]

$50-75 bucks per timber stick versus $180 per cord for the tops. Make a little on both ends of the spectrum.

That is a great point! I love cutting firewood and with a splitter it makes fairly fast work for a cord. I really appreciate this input as it is a great point to consider! I know a few spots on my farm, it is just way to steep to get into and cut firewood, to then haul out. However, there are several spots that are convenient and having access to the tops to make a little extra coin + heat my own home with - is a great idea.

Thank you buckmaster, great stuff!

 

[CJD3]

Yes. I hired a a forester. He was worth every penny.

 

[at1010]

Yes. I hired a a forester. He was worth every penny.

That seems to be everyone's consensus - thank you for sharing buddy!

 

[xbowguy]

Our Forester was worthless. Be careful who you pick. (I had no say-so in who we had)

And if they offer for you to "hold" say 4,00.00 to make good on what they say they will do...You will fare better changing that to say 15,000. Loggers will promise you the world and then do what they want instead.

 

[at1010]

Our Forester was worthless. Be careful who you pick. (I had no say-so in who we had)

And if they offer for you to "hold" say 4,00.00 to make good on what they say they will do...You will fare better changing that to say 15,000. Loggers will promise you the world and then do what they want instead.

Rick - I am so sorry to hear that happened to you! Gosh, it stinks that even a man takes steps to try to reduce the risk - jerks still show their true colors.

If you dont want to share on here, I would be interested in who you worked with - send me a PM, if you dont mind.

 

[Hunter II]

We had our 30 acres timbered 3 years ago. After agreeing on what was to be cut we asked them to clear about an acre for a food plot. They were more than happy to do it.


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[at1010]

We had our 30 acres timbered 3 years ago. After agreeing on what was to be cut we asked them to clear about an acre for a food plot. They were more than happy to do it.


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Great point to consider! If you have some spots that could be a good plot - have them clear it out for you!! Great stuff!

 

[at1010]

So, since we are on this thread - who likes hinge cuts? Flush Cuts?

I will preface this with - I am mostly in favor of creating deer bedding thickets through conventional logging methods. I personally dont think I can compete with that type of browse, and cover.

However....... I do think there are places where hinge cuts and my own "thickening" up can be beneficial.

First off here is a picture of some TSI work. This is probably not the best photo but what i am trying to show here is a red oak (green) and all the surrounding TOH (tree of heaven). You may notice my hack/squirt of herbicide into the TOH. This will kill the TOH and allow this young oak to take advantage of the open canopy. I sprayed about 50 of these sons of guns yesterday!

The next two pictures are where I hinged cut along a food plot to create a nice edge and funnel spot for deer to enter plot. As you see the deer trail is being used. It has also created stump sprout browse that is highly nutritious for whitetails. If interested in stump sprout nutritional content, checkout Dr. Marcus Lashley research on "mineral stumping" - this was completed when he was at Mississippi U.
T

Wow - what a mess! This is an area I am hinge cutting, flush cutting and taking some for firewood. Why am I making this such a mess - well because this is along a road. Although the terrain here helps for the road not to look right into the field - I have still had one or two folks over years go through a stroll from this area. If you look closely below you will see I left a singular oak (maple to right I need to fell) to fill in the now very open canopy. I will have about 100 yards cut like this over the next year. It also has helped to funnel deer down the tractor trail, before the ridge drops off. I have noticed more browse, rubs and scrape activity this year along the tractor trail - which is great to squeeze these deer down a bit. Not to mention, all the woody browse deer can now consume throughout this winter.

Thank you all for reading - have a great day !

AT.

 

[Big_Holla]

About 20 years ago we had a timber cutter come in and select cut oak veneer logs. He was a guy my uncle used many years before and he did a great job with not destroying the property. However the select cut he did really didn't have much impact on creating thicker bedding area as some places didn't have a tree big enough for him to cut. This past winter/early spring I asked him to come out and let us know if he would be able to cut again. We are getting much closer to trying to get a driveway put in, building site cleared and leveled, pole barn, etc. and the money would get the ball rolling. However, with timber prices the way they were (and are now) and with all the vertical competition in the woods he said we were at least 5-7 years before these veneer logs would be ready. His recommendation was to contact the ODNR forestry for our area and have them come out to consult since we were looking to get going on our projects. I had contacted another timber company that was recommended this summer and was all set to have someone come out to walk but I guess prices tanked the weeks before and they canceled.

I haven't made the call yet but I don't have a clue to what the steps are to get ready for them to come out to look let alone what the steps are to having the timber actually cut, tax implications (property and income), road maintenance and improvement, etc.. What else am I missing or should be aware of?

 

[at1010]

About 20 years ago we had a timber cutter come in and select cut oak veneer logs. He was a guy my uncle used many years before and he did a great job with not destroying the property. However the select cut he did really didn't have much impact on creating thicker bedding area as some places didn't have a tree big enough for him to cut. This past winter/early spring I asked him to come out and let us know if he would be able to cut again. We are getting much closer to trying to get a driveway put in, building site cleared and leveled, pole barn, etc. and the money would get the ball rolling. However, with timber prices the way they were (and are now) and with all the vertical competition in the woods he said we were at least 5-7 years before these veneer logs would be ready. His recommendation was to contact the ODNR forestry for our area and have them come out to consult since we were looking to get going on our projects. I had contacted another timber company that was recommended this summer and was all set to have someone come out to walk but I guess prices tanked the weeks before and they canceled.

I haven't made the call yet but I don't have a clue to what the steps are to get ready for them to come out to look let alone what the steps are to having the timber actually cut, tax implications (property and income), road maintenance and improvement, etc.. What else am I missing or should be aware of?

Chuck -

My suggestion is to have the free state forester come out and draw up a forestery plan. You can then enroll in the Ohio state forestry tax law and cut your taxes. You’ll need to be 1. Open to treating invasives 2. Cutting timber - if you are willing to do these things - youre cooking with peanut oil!!

I am not sure if a state forester will comment on who to use as a logger but I suspect they can mention who to avoid.

If you then want you can hire a private forester that’ll facilitate the logging efforts. Again you do need to give them a commission but based on a large percentage of folks I’ve spoke too over years - it is well worth it.

Consider your goals for harvest
Money now?
Money for your kids?
Deer cover?
Deer browse?

As you prioritize this list a forester will help you to make the best selections.

A straight timber company is focused on profits and annual revenue right now. Not in 15-30 years.

Food for thought. Hope it helps brother.

 

[CJD3]

And you can always be cutting grape vines in the meantime for something to do...