The Future of Hunting in Ohio

[bowhunter1023]

The advocate in me wants more hunters. The big buck hunter in me wants less hunters. It's quite the dichotomy.

I wanted to touch on @5Cent's earlier mention of OnX and how it dovetails with @Creamer's experiences. I grew up the son of a surveyor, in the woods reading maps. I was an early adopter of aerial imagery because of this relationship and as a former landman, I spent time in the courthouse finding property to hunt in the early 2000s. That skillset gave me an advantage in gaining access on those days and it's now irrelevant. Our county auditor's page is better than OnX now, especially in combo with Google Earth. In the past 4-5 years I've hit several pieces of public ground in the region with destinations in mind based on topography and aerial images. I'm yet to get to a pin I dropped ahead of time and not find sign of other hunters, even when getting as far as possible from a road in SE Ohio as one can get these days. I find that disheartening as a guy who really only hunts public to see new ground. I can't imagine how that feels for a guy who only had public.

Until we fix our access issues for the common man, I'm not sold on needing more hunters, hence my support for things that limit participation. I don't believe we can have our cake and eat it too, regardless of how you slice it.

 

[hickslawns]

To touch on your point, Jesse, I couldn't tell you where the closest piece of public is. I know if a couple areas 2 hours away. I've seen some for duck hunting by draw. Delaware, Maumee, or down by Heuston Woods are all 2 hours. You won't be adding many new hunters from our area that don't already drive to hunt public. Who wants to drive 2 hours or more to pack in like sardines?

 

[JARHEAD]

To touch on your point, Jesse, I couldn't tell you where the closest piece of public is. I know if a couple areas 2 hours away. I've seen some for duck hunting by draw. Delaware, Maumee, or down by Heuston Woods are all 2 hours. You won't be adding many new hunters from our area that don't already drive to hunt public. Who wants to drive 2 hours or more to pack in like sardines?

Its much different down here in SE Ohio. Between Wayne national forest, AEP land and various other public opportunities, there is literally thousands of acres of public available. And it does draw tons of people from this area and all over the country. AND THE DAMN AMISH!!!

 

[hickslawns]

Its much different down here in SE Ohio. Between Wayne national forest, AEP land and various other public opportunities, there is literally thousands of acres of public available. And it does draw tons of people from this area and all over the country. AND THE DAMN AMISH!!!

I've tried my best to stay out of this thread. I'm just saying we could use more public land. Be nice to see more in the NW corner of the state. Or west central more specifically. It would be nice to have options. Driving 2 hours minimum to hunt land everyone complains is overcrowded isn't real inviting.

 

[The Ghost of mrex]

I can say with 100% certainty that a second buck tag through “earn a buck” would never pass a WC vote with the current members in place.

 

[Robert502]

Ha. Some don't know the history there. Or why when someone posts the name of that other site it auto changes to "dumbassville". We got in a spat with the owner there about 12 years ago and we created this place.

With that said I see you're pretty new so I wanted to explain. We rarely if ever talk about this anymore. And we have a long history of advocacy on the topic of Ohios deer herd. The biggest difference here is everyone pretty well knows each other, and most have shared a campfire many many times. Nothing here is malicious and it's mostly all just banter and discussion. The biggest difference here compared to there is people are capable of having a civil discussion and aren't moderated to death. Discussion is healthy providing it's done in a mutually respectful manner. Some may have an opinion that through talking and reading others' posts may adapt their opinion. That's what makes us all wiser and not a bunch of groupthink robots.

I’m only new here . I was there for over 20 years. Thanks for the info. Discussion is one thing but those who can’t get away from “well what can we ban someone from doing that’s perfectly legal” totally baffle me. I will always stand for expanded hunter access and days afield. Always.

 

[Jackalope]

I’m only new here . I was there for over 20 years. Thanks for the info. Discussion is one thing but those who can’t get away from “well what can we ban someone from doing that’s perfectly legal” totally baffle me. I will always stand for expanded hunter access and days afield. Always.

Well welcome bud. Stick around and I think you'll find that you like this place.

12 years ago the owner there told us to go make our own forum if we thought we could do better. We did. And here we are as the largest most active outdoor forum for Ohio and that place is a ghost town.

 

[Robert502]

They ran me off when they let a certain person spout nonsense and the open advocating for banning certain implements and also banning an entire population segment. He single handedly destroyed a once great site. His name rhymes with Ned farrow. Lol

 

[Sgt Fury]

They ran me off when they let a certain person spout nonsense and the open advocating for banning certain implements and also banning an entire population segment. He single handedly destroyed a once great site. His name rhymes with Ned farrow. Lol

Yup, they dogpile on the rabbit over there. If your opinion differs from the main click, they attack. Not here! Opinions differ but here everyone discusses, no arguments. If someone (very rarely) gets out of line, it’s pretty much self regulated and the members are quick to get the convo back on track. There’s a thread for just about anything you could think to ask and a vast knowledge base. If you have a question, someone here has the answer….except Dave. Don’t listen to Dave!

 

[Curran]

The advocate in me wants more hunters. The big buck hunter in me wants less hunters. It's quite the dichotomy.

I wanted to touch on @5Cent's earlier mention of OnX and how it dovetails with @Creamer's experiences. I grew up the son of a surveyor, in the woods reading maps. I was an early adopter of aerial imagery because of this relationship and as a former landman, I spent time in the courthouse finding property to hunt in the early 2000s. That skillset gave me an advantage in gaining access on those days and it's now irrelevant. Our county auditor's page is better than OnX now, especially in combo with Google Earth. In the past 4-5 years I've hit several pieces of public ground in the region with destinations in mind based on topography and aerial images. I'm yet to get to a pin I dropped ahead of time and not find sign of other hunters, even when getting as far as possible from a road in SE Ohio as one can get these days. I find that disheartening as a guy who really only hunts public to see new ground. I can't imagine how that feels for a guy who only had public.

Until we fix our access issues for the common man, I'm not sold on needing more hunters, hence my support for things that limit participation. I don't believe we can have our cake and eat it too, regardless of how you slice it.

We don’t need more hunters and I’m tired of hearing NGO’s use hunter recruitment as a fundraising cry… You nailed the issue. Access.

If NGO’s want to get more hunters they need to reverse engineer. If they can create more access, they will retain more hunters and recruit more hunters as a positive side effect. The #1 reason people stop hunting is access. The #1 obstacle to starting hunting is finding a place to hunt.

Now, I will give two organizations props. Pheasants Forever and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Those two orgs are the only ones creating new access and actually putting new land in play for hunters to access.

 

[Tipmoose]

Yup, they dogpile on the rabbit over there. If your opinion differs from the main click, they attack. Not here! Opinions differ but here everyone discusses, no arguments. If someone (very rarely) gets out of line, it’s pretty much self regulated and the members are quick to get the convo back on track. There’s a thread for just about anything you could think to ask and a vast knowledge base. If you have a question, someone here has the answer….except Dave. Don’t listen to Dave!

So...um....ya got any coyote pelts I can buy?

 

[LonewolfNopack]

We don’t need more hunters and I’m tired of hearing NGO’s use hunter recruitment as a fundraising cry… You nailed the issue. Access.

If NGO’s want to get more hunters they need to reverse engineer. If they can create more access, they will retain more hunters and recruit more hunters as a positive side effect. The #1 reason people stop hunting is access. The #1 obstacle to starting hunting is finding a place to hunt.

Now, I will give two organizations props. Pheasants Forever and Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. Those two orgs are the only ones creating new access and actually putting new land in play for hunters to access.

View attachment 189350

Right on 100% I also think upland hunters in general have a much higher conservation ethic then deer hunters as a group. They seem to have a better perspective of big picture management and not just killing and counting inches. Aldo Leopold, the "father of wildlife management" wrote often about holistic conservation efforts and harmony between man and land. This very important cog seems to be missing with the current era of deer hunters, at least many of them. One thing I've learned about ecological progression is that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and mother nature always bats last. I fear hunters are in the process of learning some very tough ecological lessons in the years to come. If people think we have a deer problem now just wait until it's all almost entirely leased up by rich folks who don't shoot any does. We have created this toxic culture for ourselves, and its all loosely based around our obsession for measuring the size of calcium growths that protrude each fall from an ungulates skull.

 

[Sgt Fury]

So...um....ya got any coyote pelts I can buy?

They banned him but brought him back by popular demand!

 

[Jamie]

Right on 100% I also think upland hunters in general have a much higher conservation ethic then deer hunters as a group. They seem to have a better perspective of big picture management and not just killing and counting inches. Aldo Leopold, the "father of wildlife management" wrote often about holistic conservation efforts and harmony between man and land. This very important cog seems to be missing with the current era of deer hunters, at least many of them. One thing I've learned about ecological progression is that there is no such thing as a free lunch, and mother nature always bats last. I fear hunters are in the process of learning some very tough ecological lessons in the years to come. If people think we have a deer problem now just wait until it's all almost entirely leased up by rich folks who don't shoot any does. We have created this toxic culture for ourselves, and its all loosely based around our obsession for measuring the size of calcium growths that protrude each fall from an ungulates skull.

There is another component to the lack of reverence hunters have for the process today. The hunting industry as a whole has rather exacerbated everything that has gone bad among sportsmen. The gadget and equipment companies are in a never-ending circle jerk with the hook and bullet rags, hunting and fishing television shows, youtube videos, podcasts and whatever other media exists. The media and the industry (especially in archery) shamelessly promote their products and each other to an ever-dimmer clientele who laps it up without a second thought. We need to stop trying to buy success. Hunters seem to have a trouble distinguishing between the process of hunting and a hunting project. I don't see any meaningful increase in hunter access in the state of Ohio ever happening. The habitat is shrinking from human encroachment (and has been for my entire life) Leasing and private ownership will eventually have all of the non-public lands locked up permanently. We are not going to solve the attrition and recruitment problems with better access in Ohio, imo because it cannot happen. We have to look for salvation in other places. Shorter seasons, equipment restrictions, non-resident restrictions, better habitat management. We do not need more hunters, we need less and we need better ones. Hunters need be more educated about land ethic and long term conservation of the ground they are standing on and the animals they hunt, not trying to make it like the fantasy they see on television. In my experience the masses of hunters simply do not hardly care about anything more than what they can get out of it. I just don't see any widespread concern among Ohio hunters about what is at stake. Ultimately, we are all going to have to give up something to right the ship.

 

[Hedgelj]

Sorry can't buy that one... Either ends up as hunting is only for the elite (@giles sentiment) or we lose the long game because we don't bring in the next generation to love the endeavor.

Increasing hunter access is a challenge but not impossible.

You want kill permits, sure but your property is entered into the lottery for hunter access next year. They are the states deer so let the state manage them.

Think of the lottery monies people would drop to get to the metroparks during a limited season?

 

[Jamie]

Sorry can't buy that one... Either ends up as hunting is only for the elite (@giles sentiment) or we lose the long game because we don't bring in the next generation to love the endeavor.

Increasing hunter access is a challenge but not impossible.

You want kill permits, sure but your property is entered into the lottery for hunter access next year. They are the states deer so let the state manage them.

Think of the lottery monies people would drop to get to the metroparks during a limited season?

What is your plan for increasing hunter access in a measurable way?

 

[Hedgelj]

What is your plan for increasing hunter access in a measurable way?

Kill permits - the deer belong to us, so either the farmer pays for them the same way we do or they provide access to hunters,, could be through a lottery draw or some other way, numbers and types and even when they are harvested can be up to the DOW

The metro parks and other traditional non accessed spots become open to a lottery for a set season when they are not open to other public access to minimize negative interactions. Could even team this up with state regulated outfitters and do a lottery to raise additional funds and to relate hunter impact.

Those are just two off the top of my head

 

[Tipmoose]

Kill permits - the deer belong to us, so either the farmer pays for them the same way we do or they provide access to hunters,, could be through a lottery draw or some other way, numbers and types and even when they are harvested can be up to the DOW

The metro parks and other traditional non accessed spots become open to a lottery for a set season when they are not open to other public access to minimize negative interactions. Could even team this up with state regulated outfitters and do a lottery to raise additional funds and to relate hunter impact.

Those are just two off the top of my head

This would only affect farmers who want depredation permits, right?

 

[Hedgelj]

This would only affect farmers who want depredation permits, right?

correct

 

[Jamie]

Kill permits - the deer belong to us, so either the farmer pays for them the same way we do or they provide access to hunters,, could be through a lottery draw or some other way, numbers and types and even when they are harvested can be up to the DOW

The metro parks and other traditional non accessed spots become open to a lottery for a set season when they are not open to other public access to minimize negative interactions. Could even team this up with state regulated outfitters and do a lottery to raise additional funds and to relate hunter impact.

Those are just two off the top of my head

These are fine ideas. I have my doubts about how much access those things can possibly create, though.

I don’t really like the idea of hunters being reduced to acting as exterminators. That is essentially what Metro park hunting and depredation permit hunting is. I’m sure plenty of people can’t, won’t or don’t care about making that distinction, but I am not one of them. You could not pay me to hunt in a metro park in that circumstance.