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2019-nCoV (Coronavirus)

hickslawns

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@Blan37 I have a thought. Let's use logic. You are a nurse or doctor. You are treating a patient with the flu. Who wears the mask? You or the patient? You do of course. The same if a patient has c-diff. Who takes all the PPE precautions? You or the patient? It is the care worker.

Now in the case of infectious disease the PPE is for the safety of healthcare worker. Nobody wants c-diff. Nasty stuff. My wife (an RN who spent a good number of years in ICU step down) told me the masks are for the safety of the patient. I'm curious if this is accurate in ALL cases. With the flu I would think the mask is to protect the workers. If a patient is weakened due to cancer or something I would think the mask (of healthcare worker) would be to keep the patient safe.

Not picking a side. Just thought provokation stuff. Maybe @Hedgelj or some of our healthcare workers can elaborate. And for the record I would social distance from Geezer or wear a mask if he requested. It's a respect thing. At the same time I would say "Dammit Dan. Go home. You know some of us TOOzers will get your groceries. Just ask." 😁
 
Likes: Blan37
@Blan37 I have a thought. Let's use logic. You are a nurse or doctor. You are treating a patient with the flu. Who wears the mask? You or the patient? You do of course. The same if a patient has c-diff. Who takes all the PPE precautions? You or the patient? It is the care worker.

Now in the case of infectious disease the PPE is for the safety of healthcare worker. Nobody wants c-diff. Nasty stuff. My wife (an RN who spent a good number of years in ICU step down) told me the masks are for the safety of the patient. I'm curious if this is accurate in ALL cases. With the flu I would think the mask is to protect the workers. If a patient is weakened due to cancer or something I would think the mask (of healthcare worker) would be to keep the patient safe.

Not picking a side. Just thought provokation stuff. Maybe @Hedgelj or some of our healthcare workers can elaborate. And for the record I would social distance from Geezer or wear a mask if he requested. It's a respect thing. At the same time I would say "Dammit Dan. Go home. You know some of us TOOzers will get your groceries. Just ask." 😁
Fugg off, Phil, I said I'm done with the mask shit and you're dragging me back in. I've decided to move on to gloves now :ROFLMAO:

Joking aside, I'm going to leave this one to the medical folks to figure out. I have my opinions (and I've laid them out ad-nauseum) and some 'internet facts,' but that's all they are.
 
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Outside

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@Blan37 I have a thought. Let's use logic. You are a nurse or doctor. You are treating a patient with the flu. Who wears the mask? You or the patient? You do of course. The same if a patient has c-diff. Who takes all the PPE precautions? You or the patient? It is the care worker.

Now in the case of infectious disease the PPE is for the safety of healthcare worker. Nobody wants c-diff. Nasty stuff. My wife (an RN who spent a good number of years in ICU step down) told me the masks are for the safety of the patient. I'm curious if this is accurate in ALL cases. With the flu I would think the mask is to protect the workers. If a patient is weakened due to cancer or something I would think the mask (of healthcare worker) would be to keep the patient safe.

Not picking a side. Just thought provokation stuff. Maybe @Hedgelj or some of our healthcare workers can elaborate. And for the record I would social distance from Geezer or wear a mask if he requested. It's a respect thing. At the same time I would say "Dammit Dan. Go home. You know some of us TOOzers will get your groceries. Just ask." 😁
PPE protects those who don it.
 
Likes: Blan37
@Blan37 I have a thought. Let's use logic. You are a nurse or doctor. You are treating a patient with the flu. Who wears the mask? You or the patient? You do of course. The same if a patient has c-diff. Who takes all the PPE precautions? You or the patient? It is the care worker.

Now in the case of infectious disease the PPE is for the safety of healthcare worker. Nobody wants c-diff. Nasty stuff. My wife (an RN who spent a good number of years in ICU step down) told me the masks are for the safety of the patient. I'm curious if this is accurate in ALL cases. With the flu I would think the mask is to protect the workers. If a patient is weakened due to cancer or something I would think the mask (of healthcare worker) would be to keep the patient safe.

Not picking a side. Just thought provokation stuff. Maybe @Hedgelj or some of our healthcare workers can elaborate. And for the record I would social distance from Geezer or wear a mask if he requested. It's a respect thing. At the same time I would say "Dammit Dan. Go home. You know some of us TOOzers will get your groceries. Just ask." 😁
Ah, screw it. I'll bite.

Let me answer by asking a question... Who should wear the mask when no one knows who's sick and who isn't?
 

Hedgelj

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@Blan37 I have a thought. Let's use logic. You are a nurse or doctor. You are treating a patient with the flu. Who wears the mask? You or the patient? You do of course. The same if a patient has c-diff. Who takes all the PPE precautions? You or the patient? It is the care worker.

Now in the case of infectious disease the PPE is for the safety of healthcare worker. Nobody wants c-diff. Nasty stuff. My wife (an RN who spent a good number of years in ICU step down) told me the masks are for the safety of the patient. I'm curious if this is accurate in ALL cases. With the flu I would think the mask is to protect the workers. If a patient is weakened due to cancer or something I would think the mask (of healthcare worker) would be to keep the patient safe.

Not picking a side. Just thought provokation stuff. Maybe @Hedgelj or some of our healthcare workers can elaborate. And for the record I would social distance from Geezer or wear a mask if he requested. It's a respect thing. At the same time I would say "Dammit Dan. Go home. You know some of us TOOzers will get your groceries. Just ask." 😁
The PPE a healthcare worker uses its based upon the disease process the patient has.

Standard precautions are hand washing and gloves, etc. It's what you use for most patient contacts.

Contact precautions are for diseases that spread through contact with spores, bacteria, etc. Examples include MRSA, VRE, Cdiff. Gloves, disposable gown are worn.

Droplet precautions in diseases where the patient sheds droplets that only travel about 3 feet such as influenza and whooping cough. gowns, gloves and now we add a mask. This is a medical mask like what we think of and does protect the health care provider from the droplets landing on their face/respiratory tract.

Airborne precautions are for diseases that are transmitted via smaller airborne droplets that can remain suspended in the air for a long time (this is the difference from droplet isolation). Examples include measles, chickenpox, Tuberculosis. This requires a special negative pressure room, gown, gloves, goggles or face shield and n95 or PAPR (powered air purifying respirator). This is how COVID patients are isolated in the hospital setting.

Neutropenic precautions are for patients with a low white blood cell count who are at increased risk of any infection. You wear gowns gloves and sometimes a mask (depending on the healthcare system and if you're recovering from anything yourself) to protect the patient from yourself or basically contact precautions in reverse.

I may have missed a few of the details but those are the large ideas. I haven't worked on the floor in a bedside role in 10 years.

In the OR we all wear masks to keep our germs out of the surgical site. Most of the precautions we take are to protect surgical field and keep from being exposed to the patients bodily fluids. I wear glasses to pet my eyes from coughing or inadvertent splashes from the surgeon working. This at the bed with the surgeon have the impermeable gowns for the same reason. If the patient is under the other precautions mentioned above then we take additional steps. However in European countries only the surgeon and those directly over the incision wear masks, no one else does and it doesn't change their rate of surgical infections.
 

Hedgelj

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Now let's look at masks.

Surgical masks are made of polypropylene and have ties to adjust the fit. Procedure masks are similar. Their main purpose is to keep me from getting splashed from surgical gunk, bodily fluid etc and to keep me from spitting or coughing into the open wound.

N95 respirators are actually designed to filter out particles and require a fit test to ensure the wearer is protected.

There are other masks used by construction and other trades that i don't know enough to discuss about except they may have similar or better filtration abilities than an n95. Filters such as p95, p99, p100 offer the same or better filtering ability but also have protection from petroleum distillates.

Cloth masks give as much variety in filtering/protection as there are materials they are made from. There are studies showing that a multiple layered tightly woven (couple hundred thread count or very tightly woven flannel) can offer good filtration and protection. How many of those types of masks are you seeing vs the simple cheap decorated cotton masks that are a single layer of cotton?

Then a healthcare worker is taught to only use them once and promptly remove when soiled with fluid (coughing or otherwise) and replace. Who is actually doing this? I know that the workers in a Walmart distribution center were given one mask per shift or less.
 

Hedgelj

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Thinking back about my last two posts, i might be coming across as very pessimistic. I'm not I promise.

I know many people are scared and want to do something to help and i commend and appreciate that. Then add in the disinformation and crap information spewed by news sources, social media, etc and you have the current charlie foxtrot we are in.

The media is putting their spin/ bias and agenda on everything they report on, you have governmental agencies trying to cover their butts (ergo the CDC suggesting that health care providers wear scarves or bandana if we ran out of ppe and that it would actually protect us).

It's just a huge soup sandwich.
 

Hedgelj

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Onto conditioning.....

Initially we were locking down and attempting to "flatten the curve" to decrease the speed of infection so that our healthcare system didn't become overwhelmed and we started to make triage decisions like ccurred in Italy.

Then the message started to change. Rather than establishing herd immunity everyone jumped on the vaccine bandwagon and prevention of more infections. They changed the goal and most of society went along with it. However, the economic, mental health, and societal impacts and devastation of the lockdown were never being addressed.

Now we are being conditioned with terms such as "the new normal" "for the protection of others', heck I have a friend who likened wearing a mask in public as a moral decision.

All of this for a virus that is showing a less than 1 percent death rate, my personal opinion is that we're going to find it is right around the flu.
We are having businesses shuttered, many for good, lives and economies ruined, for what gain? Why is it acceptable for the cure to be worse than the disease?

Why is social distancing allowed in Walmart but not your local mom and pop store? Why is Joann fabrics considered an essential business but not hobby lobby? Lowes and not your local hardwware store?

If the masks work then why are we closing anything? If the masks don't work why are they being promoted?

Why if the CDC is recommending masks (and has been for weeks) did our elected officials just begin to wear them on TV and at no point during the lockdown did you ever see them social distance during their talks? But yet the rest of us "needed" to?

Look up H3N2 (aka Hong Kong Flu) it was (currently) more deadly than Covid but no shutodowns occurred and in fact Woodstock happened during the time it was occurring in the world. Why the difference?

Why have I read not a single story about the hundreds of recoveries and those percentages? Why only doom and gloom? Its appearing that >99 percent of people do just fine. I'm not saying that that one percent or so aren't worth me busting my butt at work to keep alive, but why are we destroying so many other aspects of our society?

What is life without our friends, our abilities to do things, etc? We are social animals.

Why is it that we are supposed to have a 6 month or more emergency fund but yet businesses can't handle a month without receiving bailouts? What makes a business more important than me? Who gets to draw the line of what's considered "essential"?

It appears Dewine is getting his hand slapped over governmental overreach and honestly I think he's done a good job for the most part based upon the information we had at the time. But now he's slipping. Look up north where the governor overrreached so far that she isn't allowing the sale of seeds or plants for gardens....how is that not overreach?

Initially it looked as if (based upon the info from China and Italy) that we were facing a major threat to our lives. I was all for the shutdowns and flattening the curve etc. But the numbers arren't lining up and so we need to adjust accordingly.
 
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Jackalope

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Hory chit... Man if this data is real, wow... States (and countries) that have ended lockdowns saw a DECREASE in the R0 number (infection rate).

Joe - you seeing anything like this in your data?

It's interesting for sure. With most viruses I have read that their strength often gets shittier and shittier over time and after infecting person after person they become less infectious. Each time the virus infects someone that persons DNA is used to make the virus replicate in their body. The vast majority of time it is not a perfect construction and most replicated DNA constructs are bad and don't work. So each time it infects someone it gets a little crappier. Given time, and number of people in a sequence it's very possible that the virus could be weakening or commonly called "burning out"
 

Bowkills

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At the grocery gearing up for smoking chicken. It appears people in my town r saying f the masks. Not all but a large number of people that I'm assuming r in the high risk of death rate If they'd get it bad. More middle aged folks got them on. If employees r done and old folks r done I to am done with them if not required. I'll keep my distance. I have worn a mask twice now since the start.