The garage foundation is cracked and slipping down towards the front of the garage door with the crack being the pivot point. I think piers make sense since they would be drilled to solid strata. I'll take a better pic of the wall further back so you can see it better. What do you think of interior bracing in addition to excavation? Overkill?
Basement Foundation repair
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Buckmaster
Senior Member
Looks like my old 1955 built home. That's the main reason I got out. The costs of digging up the foundation, fixing, and doing a full gravel backfill would have been too steep.
Built the new home 2 years ago and I was damn sure to spend the extra $ 4k for a full gravel backfill.
I'm still trying to follow you on the garage part, maybe pics will help.
But yeah unfortunately the reinf is most likely necessary. As much as that wall cracked and as long as the cracks are there isn't much reinf in there. When they backfill it with gravel it'll eliminate the "swelling" effect but there's still the weight of the gravel against your wall that the wall has to support.
But I don't think they need to replace the clay with rock if they are reinforcing it with beams. If they design the steel for the correct pressure it's going to be okay.
Second estimate. Does not address the garage foundation issue.
Simple copy and paste below.
WE HEREBY SUBMIT SPECIFICATIONS AND ESTIMATES FOR:
EQUIPMENT, LABOR AND MATERIALS TO STABILIZE THE FOUR CRACKED AND SLIGHTLY BOWED BASEMENT WALLS.
SCOPE OF WORK TO INCLUDE:
INSTALL SIXTEEN STEEL 8” x 18.75# “C” CHANNELS ON THE BASEMENT WALLS AS FOLLOWS: FIVE (5) ON THE FRONT WALL
FIVE (5) ON THE N. SIDE WALL
THREE (3) ON THE BACK WALL
THREE (3) ON THE GARAGE SIDE WALL
THE CONCRETE FLOOR WILL BE PENETRATED AND PATCHED TO SECURE THE BOTTOM OF THE STEEL CHANNELS.
PRELOAD THE TOP OF THE “C” CHANNELS WITH ADJUSTABLE JACK SCREWS BRACED WITH 2 x 10s, GLUED AND SCREWED BETWEEN / BELOW THE FLOOR JOISTS.
LENGTH OF STEEL - _____________________
FLOOR JOIST SIZE - _____________________
GUARANTEE:
STEEL CHANNEL BRACING IS A STABILIZATION METHOD. THIS SCHEDULE OF WALL BRACING WILL INSURE THE STEEL BRACED WALLS ARE STRUCTURALLY SOUND.
WE GUARANTEE THAT THE STEEL CHANNEL BRACES AND THE BLOCK DIRECTLY BEHIND THE BRACES WILL NOT MOVE. GUARANTEE FOLLOWS THE ADRESS AND IS LIFETIME TRANSFERRABLE.
Simple copy and paste below.
WE HEREBY SUBMIT SPECIFICATIONS AND ESTIMATES FOR:
EQUIPMENT, LABOR AND MATERIALS TO STABILIZE THE FOUR CRACKED AND SLIGHTLY BOWED BASEMENT WALLS.
SCOPE OF WORK TO INCLUDE:
INSTALL SIXTEEN STEEL 8” x 18.75# “C” CHANNELS ON THE BASEMENT WALLS AS FOLLOWS: FIVE (5) ON THE FRONT WALL
FIVE (5) ON THE N. SIDE WALL
THREE (3) ON THE BACK WALL
THREE (3) ON THE GARAGE SIDE WALL
THE CONCRETE FLOOR WILL BE PENETRATED AND PATCHED TO SECURE THE BOTTOM OF THE STEEL CHANNELS.
PRELOAD THE TOP OF THE “C” CHANNELS WITH ADJUSTABLE JACK SCREWS BRACED WITH 2 x 10s, GLUED AND SCREWED BETWEEN / BELOW THE FLOOR JOISTS.
LENGTH OF STEEL - _____________________
FLOOR JOIST SIZE - _____________________
GUARANTEE:
STEEL CHANNEL BRACING IS A STABILIZATION METHOD. THIS SCHEDULE OF WALL BRACING WILL INSURE THE STEEL BRACED WALLS ARE STRUCTURALLY SOUND.
WE GUARANTEE THAT THE STEEL CHANNEL BRACES AND THE BLOCK DIRECTLY BEHIND THE BRACES WILL NOT MOVE. GUARANTEE FOLLOWS THE ADRESS AND IS LIFETIME TRANSFERRABLE.
bthompson1004
Member
I have seen a few houses in the maumee area that had the channels installed on cracked walls and they seemed to be pretty effective...very solid way of bracing a concrete wall if you have to, however the topic of excavation and backfilling with stone and adding drainage tile was talked about in the same breath...sucks to hear you have to deal with this mess, but, at least this quote didn't mention adding cranks to the wall that you would have to turn every once in awhile to push the walls back out....channels are one of the most versatile steel shapes to use in a lot of applications because the different ways they can be loade and simply because of their shape...obviously, you will still have cracks in your wall and water coming in to them from outside that needs addressed to stop the freeze/thaw cycles in those areas, which sucks cause the only right way to do that is expensive as hell.
Loved their guarantee at the bottom TOO! Reminded me of Tommy Boy..."if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed I will, i have spare time!"
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bthompson1004
Member
They prbly just made a copy and paste error from another quote they have on file...Second part is exactly right also...like Milo said, you have a water problem that has created structural problems...IMHO, any foundation cracks SHOULD be checked to see if the crack is all the way through the exterior of the foundation walls (if you have water problems then you know this to already be true)...its a hard, sucky bullet to bite, BUT, unless the walls are fixed from the exterior (where the water comes in), PROPERLY, (not an Everdry system or equivalent) and braced on the inside, the freeze/thaw cycles will continue to make the cracks larger and possibly create more...bracing is only to help prevent the walls from caving in and essentially, IMO, only one part of the proper foundation fix.
I feel for ya Mike. the only options at this point seem like expensive ones.
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Not going to help you now, but I have considered basement wall and foundation repairs. It seems there are only a few companies offering these services and they are all expensive. I have the dump trucks, skid loaders, and a backhoe. $20-25k for a nice used mini excavator and I would be set. Wish I could help Mike but between my schedule and the hour fifteen minutes separating us, it would be tough.
One thing nobody is mentioning: Lawn and landscape repair after the repairs. Not to add more worries to your plate, but nobody seems to mention it in their repairs. You might be adding a couple grand on top of these repairs if it is not included. We have done several lawn/landscape repairs in the Lima area from people who have had this done. Something else to think about. ugh
One thing nobody is mentioning: Lawn and landscape repair after the repairs. Not to add more worries to your plate, but nobody seems to mention it in their repairs. You might be adding a couple grand on top of these repairs if it is not included. We have done several lawn/landscape repairs in the Lima area from people who have had this done. Something else to think about. ugh
I can handle the landscape repairs. It will all be removed and relocated to the back of the yard while the work is done. I'm not worried about it. They will regrade and reseed as necessary. I was planning on expanding my beds anyway. Thanks Phil.
Mike, so you're saying that at the base of the wall the foundation is actually sliding inward (away from the exterior face where the clay is)? Probably an issue w/ your ftgs not having enough size/weight and they're actually sliding b/c of the weight from the clay. With this and the water penetration issue it may not be a bad idea to excavate the exterior and have them put some type of a barrier on the exterior of the wall to keep water from penetrating as well as gravel and a drain. This is where they're putting in the helicals right?
I agree w/ thompson that the ftg should be checked to make sure it isn't cracked the whole way thru. If it is it's just going to keep sliding unless it's dealt with.
As a side note do you have any expansion/contraction joints in those walls? The more I look at those cracks I'm fairly certain those are cracks from temp/creep. If there's no joints in the wall then the concrete is going to naturally create these joints by cracking. Once the cracks form you can just get some good fill and seal that puppy up and you have yourself and exp jt w/o doing any cutting. That's a win! lol
Looking at how it's buckling your drop ceiling I think the retaining wall is acting like a cantilevered wall(like a cantilevered beam) not a wall spanning floor to floor(kinda like a beam would spanning support to support). I bet if they pull away the soil form your wall you're going to see horizontal cracks on the exterior face b/c that's where the wall is in tension and conc is no good in tension if it's not properly reinforced. Water is probably getting in these cracks and the freeze thaw cycle over the years created those cracks you now see on the inside.
Sorry for the long winded response but the more I look at it the more I agree w/ the excavate, waterproof, and reinforce attack. Again don't take my word for it this is just my $0.02.
I agree w/ thompson that the ftg should be checked to make sure it isn't cracked the whole way thru. If it is it's just going to keep sliding unless it's dealt with.
As a side note do you have any expansion/contraction joints in those walls? The more I look at those cracks I'm fairly certain those are cracks from temp/creep. If there's no joints in the wall then the concrete is going to naturally create these joints by cracking. Once the cracks form you can just get some good fill and seal that puppy up and you have yourself and exp jt w/o doing any cutting. That's a win! lol
Looking at how it's buckling your drop ceiling I think the retaining wall is acting like a cantilevered wall(like a cantilevered beam) not a wall spanning floor to floor(kinda like a beam would spanning support to support). I bet if they pull away the soil form your wall you're going to see horizontal cracks on the exterior face b/c that's where the wall is in tension and conc is no good in tension if it's not properly reinforced. Water is probably getting in these cracks and the freeze thaw cycle over the years created those cracks you now see on the inside.
Sorry for the long winded response but the more I look at it the more I agree w/ the excavate, waterproof, and reinforce attack. Again don't take my word for it this is just my $0.02.
We made our decision. Contractor #3.
It's the same exact system as Contractor #1 except he didn't feel helical piers were going to be necessary for the garage issue. He is going to excavate and see what's going on first and see if it's cracked all the way down. If it needs piers, he subs that out at a fraction of the cost of contractor #1. They will also use 3/4" insulation. The main reason for the foam insulation is for the movement of the gravel on the waterproofing membrane.
$10,000 less than contractor #1. See below.
It's the same exact system as Contractor #1 except he didn't feel helical piers were going to be necessary for the garage issue. He is going to excavate and see what's going on first and see if it's cracked all the way down. If it needs piers, he subs that out at a fraction of the cost of contractor #1. They will also use 3/4" insulation. The main reason for the foam insulation is for the movement of the gravel on the waterproofing membrane.
$10,000 less than contractor #1. See below.
bthompson1004
Member
Congrats Mike, haven't read everything yet but i plan to catch up on this tomorrow...sounds like the best plan though to me, unfortunately sometimes the right fix can't be determined without paying for an "exploratory dig", but still the way to go...at that point it is plan for the worst and hope for the best!
Yeah that sounds a helluva lot better than the helical piers or the people who obviously didn't take their time and copy and pasted and said you wall was block lol good choice mike I hope it works out for ya!
Oh and post some pics of exterior face of the basement wall when he pulls back the dirt. I'm interested in seeing if there are horizontal cracks there.
Oh and post some pics of exterior face of the basement wall when he pulls back the dirt. I'm interested in seeing if there are horizontal cracks there.