Contractors.

[Buckmaster]

I wish I knew a trade because I know business and I know I could make damn good money leveraging my business IQ with an in-demand trade.

Do you still have any paint knowledge left from your days at Sherwin Williams?
Might be a starting point.....

 

[bowhunter1023]

Yep. We have a local niche paint supplier that I'd love to buy. The owner is nearing retirement and we are currently working on a public-private partnership with one another. My angle is to see if it is for sale, and how much if so.

 

[BCamp]

Our hall has twice as many apprentices as we had last year at this time and constantly has calls out for travelers. We have about 30 travelers in Dayton right now which is more than anyone remembers in the last 30 years. Our problem is almost everywhere else is just as busy and we make less money than say Columbus, Cincinnati or Lima that's where the travelers are going. Skilled trades are short now and it's going to get worse before it gets better. For too long the push has been college for everyone.

 

[cspot]

My current job is trying to solve our workforce issue. From laborers to CEOs, there's a shortage of good people. I'm yet to meet a business that doesn't have personnel issues.

Yep. That problem is everywhere. It is really hard to find good people these days. And these aren't minimum wage jobs that I am talking about either. It is hard to find good people that are making a wage good enough to raise a family and has health and pension benefits.

 

[Floki]

My current job is trying to solve our workforce issue. From laborers to CEOs, there's a shortage of good people. I'm yet to meet a business that doesn't have personnel issues.

I can answer that. Drugs,lack of work ethic,kids having parents that let them live with them till they are 50 with no expectations. Bundled in with a generation that feels entitled.Oh and did I mention drugs...

As most have said,finding help is the hardest part.

 

[bowhunter1023]

I know the symptoms, we all know them. The trick is solving the problem(s). One example would be to stop testing for THC in menial, non-hazardous occupations. I had one hiring manager say they'd do that if they could and it would raise their hiring pool by 80%. Employers learning to invest in their people and not pay $9/hr is another solution.

Affecting change regarding all those symptoms is a lifetime endeavor.

 

[giles]

Stop student loans!

 

[Isaacorps]

Stop student loans!

So only the rich can afford to be educated?

 

[giles]

So only the rich can afford to be educated?

Plenty of other ways to get educated if you can’t afford it. Student loans are a trap anyways. It would just force people to work harder for an education. Teach some basics and give a solid base to use in life. And trust me, these schools wouldn’t be so expensive if the money wasn’t readily handed out.

Trade schools would boom. Debt issues most people have would be better. Kids would have a work ethic. Military recruitment would go up.

And maybe, just maybe, some parents would save some money and not be driving that $75,000+ SUV back and forth to soccer practice.

You do t need an education to make money. I can promise you that! My education level is very limited, but I’m no dumbass and have made my share of money already in life. You need a work ethic, you need to know how to show up every day, you need to know how to show up on time, you need to be able to manage money.

Student loans are not used correctly for 90% of people using them. But it’s easy and people are making a lot of money providing them, so they will continue. Sure 10% are truly getting a benefit from them, and good for those folks. But I’m sure those individuals using them correctly would find another way.

Back to my original point, get ride of student loans and the workforce would benefit. It’ll never happen, so I guess it wasn’t even worth my time to mention it. Pipe dreaming...

 

[BCamp]

Plenty of other ways to get educated if you can’t afford it. Student loans are a trap anyways. It would just force people to work harder for an education. Teach some basics and give a solid base to use in life. And trust me, these schools wouldn’t be so expensive if the money wasn’t readily handed out.

Trade schools would boom. Debt issues most people have would be better. Kids would have a work ethic. Military recruitment would go up.

And maybe, just maybe, some parents would save some money and not be driving that $75,000+ SUV back and forth to soccer practice.

You do t need an education to make money. I can promise you that! My education level is very limited, but I’m no dumbass and have made my share of money already in life. You need a work ethic, you need to know how to show up every day, you need to know how to show up on time, you need to be able to manage money.

Student loans are not used correctly for 90% of people using them. But it’s easy and people are making a lot of money providing them, so they will continue. Sure 10% are truly getting a benefit from them, and good for those folks. But I’m sure those individuals using them correctly would find another way.

Back to my original point, get ride of student loans and the workforce would benefit. It’ll never happen, so I guess it wasn’t even worth my time to mention it. Pipe dreaming...

Also then maybe high school would go back to preparing kids to be able too get a job and contribute to society instead of just how to go to college. It could also force colleges to change and only make students take relevant classes for their degree instead of all the electives to make them "well rounded" but really just drive up the cost.

 

[cspot]

I know the symptoms, we all know them. The trick is solving the problem(s). One example would be to stop testing for THC in menial, non-hazardous occupations. I had one hiring manager say they'd do that if they could and it would raise their hiring pool by 80%. Employers learning to invest in their people and not pay $9/hr is another solution.

Affecting change regarding all those symptoms is a lifetime endeavor.

The jobs that I am talking about pay 25-35 an hour plus benefits and it is hard to find good people. You would think people would be lined up. These are blue collar jobs that don’t require an education. They just require a good work ethic and a willingness and ability to learn.

I really don’t know what the answer is or how to change it.

 

[Isaacorps]

Plenty of other ways to get educated if you can’t afford it. Student loans are a trap anyways. It would just force people to work harder for an education. Teach some basics and give a solid base to use in life. And trust me, these schools wouldn’t be so expensive if the money wasn’t readily handed out.

Trade schools would boom. Debt issues most people have would be better. Kids would have a work ethic. Military recruitment would go up.

And maybe, just maybe, some parents would save some money and not be driving that $75,000+ SUV back and forth to soccer practice.

You do t need an education to make money. I can promise you that! My education level is very limited, but I’m no dumbass and have made my share of money already in life. You need a work ethic, you need to know how to show up every day, you need to know how to show up on time, you need to be able to manage money.

Student loans are not used correctly for 90% of people using them. But it’s easy and people are making a lot of money providing them, so they will continue. Sure 10% are truly getting a benefit from them, and good for those folks. But I’m sure those individuals using them correctly would find another way.

Back to my original point, get ride of student loans and the workforce would benefit. It’ll never happen, so I guess it wasn’t even worth my time to mention it. Pipe dreaming...

I agree with most of what you’re saying. Educational debt is a trap that a lot of people fall into because they are chasing something that doesn’t exist. I didn’t need any post secondary education to be succesful in my profession. A good work ethic and a willingness to learn got me where I am today. My wife, on the other hand, needed a college education to pursue her career and the only way to do that was to take out some student loans. That coupled with an incredible drive and refusal to quit resulted in her being the first person in her family to earn a college degree and pursue her career. The big difference (which is not unique to this discussion) is willingness to work vs entitlement. We both worked our asses off while going to school at the same time. This country has an entitlement problem more than anything. It rears its ugly head in every area of society, this one included. Student loans aren’t inherently bad, just easily exploited by unscrupulous people appealing to the overwhelming sense of entitlement carrried by the majority of young people in this country.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Dave, can you show me the data behind your 90/10 numbers? Don't forget I'm an "educator" now. I'm also a lowly bachelor's degree holder with student loan debt. Just curious if you had the science and if so, I'd like to it.

 

[giles]

I agree with most of what you’re saying. Educational debt is a trap that a lot of people fall into because they are chasing something that doesn’t exist. I didn’t need any post secondary education to be succesful in my profession. A good work ethic and a willingness to learn got me where I am today. My wife, on the other hand, needed a college education to pursue her career and the only way to do that was to take out some student loans. That coupled with an incredible drive and refusal to quit resulted in her being the first person in her family to earn a college degree and pursue her career. The big difference (which is not unique to this discussion) is willingness to work vs entitlement. We both worked our asses off while going to school at the same time. This country has an entitlement problem more than anything. It rears its ugly head in every area of society, this one included. Student loans aren’t inherently bad, just easily exploited by unscrupulous people appealing to the overwhelming sense of entitlement carrried by the majority of young people in this country.

Your wife is a great example of why the program exist. Good for her!

 

[giles]

Dave, can you show me the data behind your 90/10 numbers? Don't forget I'm an "educator" now. I'm also a lowly bachelor's degree holder with student loan debt. Just curious if you had the science and if so, I'd like to it.

No data, just going off life experiences. Seems almost everyone has student loan debt and very few using the education.

 

[bowhunter1023]

So, anecdotal. My data would beg to differ. Maybe don't throw the baby out with the bath water? Keep in mind, I agree from a fundamental standpoint that is was a fabricated systems that essentially enabled indentured servitude. And my job now is to change the narrative and drive enrollment at technical school. But...

I don't survive my layoff and come out clean without that degree. I'm a 10%'r

 

[giles]

So, anecdotal. My data would beg to differ. Maybe don't throw the baby out with the bath water? Keep in mind, I agree from a fundamental standpoint that is was a fabricated systems that essentially enabled indentured servitude. And my job now is to change the narrative and drive enrollment at technical school. But...

I don't survive my layoff and come out clean without that degree. I'm a 10%'r

You used so many words I don’t understand...maybe I do need a loan. Sound so official and impotttaint.

 

[jagermeister]

Student loans are not the problem. It's the improper use of them, as a byproduct of shitty guidance and direction. I know a lot of people who are incredibly successful and wouldn't be where they are today without student loans. Those people, myself included, had a plan and a passion to get to the finish line. It's not Sallie Mae's fault there are a lot of dipshits out there too. The problem is and has been this stigma that "everyone has to go to college." That's simply false, but the high schools and universities have kept pushing. College is definitely not for everyone and there are plenty of ways to make money without obtaining a degree. And there are plenty of great jobs that DO require a degree. Just depends on your aspirations and your plan.

The other, and arguably biggest, problem that we're all well aware of is the entitlement attitude. The drug problem is a tough one too, but I think eventually employers will have no choice but to revise their policies regarding marijuana, and that will sort itself out. The entitlement thing has taken decades to reveal itself and I think will take even longer to heal itself, if ever at all. Parents these days are more concerned with their smartphones and with being their kids best friends rather than providing direction and structure. With each generation it gets worse exponentially. I honestly don't know if we'll ever see it get better.

 

[5Cent]

Wowsers, this took the fork turn to the left quickly. I understand the connection of trade vs a 4yr college degree but I thought this thread was about contractor and how they do/don't run a good business.

I love seeing this gap in trade skills. It is about damn time America got back to basics. For the reasons stated above, it's time for the 2nd Industrial Revolution!

 

[giles]

Wowsers, this took the fork turn to the left quickly. I understand the connection of trade vs a 4yr college degree but I thought this thread was about contractor and how they do/don't run a good business.

Almost time to get back in the stand...much needed for some of us!