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Coyotes Take Down 6-pointer

After talking to Mrex about the yotes he gave some insight as to how the yote/deer populations of SR changed over the years. Years ago the yote moved in and had a population explosion. The deer started to decline as they had never really had anything to worry about as far as preditors. After a few years the does learned better ways to hide and raise the little ones so the yotes couldn't kill them. The yote population leveled off and the deer started to rebound. He also said the more yote you shoot the more they will have per litter to balance out the die off.

That changed the way I am thinking of hunting them. I'm still going to do it but only to keep them at a steady level as not to cause an explosion of my local population. We can't rid our properties of them but we sure as hell can manage them just we try to do with our deer.
 
the more yote you shoot the more they will have per litter to balance out the die off.
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe this for a minute. I think it is a wives tale. I've bred dogs for many years and have a good, basic understanding of it and am basing my thoughts on the fact that coyotes and dogs are in the same family, so to speak.

One of my Goldens had 11 pups on her first litter. 1st litters are usually smaller. By her 3rd litter, she had 15 pups. I deliberately kept some of her bloodline so I could continue to throw large litters as that is a trait that can be (and is) passed on.

However, I have had other Goldens that only throw an average of 8 pups per litter as do their subsequent offspring.

If there are more deer to eat, then more pups would survive because the mom is being kept healthy. If food is scarce, more pups die. Pups survival rate does depend upon the condition of their momma.

However, each bitch is predetermined to have X amount of pups. Some lines just have the trait of large litters.

If she has say 8 pups and suddenly several coyotes are killed off, then her next litter consists of 11 pups, that doesn't mean she compensated due to coyotes being killed off. It means she reached a better breeding age. As she gets older, her litter size will start to decline, sometimes as low as 4 per litter instead of her normal 8. (Just making up coyote litter size here as an example.)

Just my opinion.

I say kill them all.
 
Great input xbowgirl. Seems logical to me. Either way, I kill every one I can. Last year we took down a few, but that wasn't enough.
 
I don't know, xbowgirl... You may have experience with dogs, but even though coyotes are indeed canines they are still wild animals. Wild animals and domestic animals are not one in the same. I believe there is scientific research to support the idea of coyotes producing more young in response to predation... but I can't remember who or where it was from off the top of my head.
 

http://www.carnivoreconservation.org/files/thesis/carlson_2008_phd.pdf
"Finally, out-of-season stimulation of ovarian hormones and estrous behaviors suggested that reproductive seasonality of the coyote may possess some degree of plasticity, providing an adaptive response mechanism to environmental change."

http://www.predatordefense.org/docs/coyotes_letter_Dr_Crabtree_06-21-12.pdf
"Although removal of offending individuals may temporarily alleviate predation rates on the protected species, the alleviation is usually short-term and has long-term side-effects that can result in increased predation rates and increasingly ineffective control activities."

This one's really good....

"It cannot be over-emphasized how powerfully coyote populations compensate for population reductions. Such density dependent responses to exploitation (human-caused mortality) are common in mammals and present in all territorial populations at or near habitat saturation. Both evolutionary biology and the results of research (e.g., recently completed 20 year study in Yellowstone National Park before and after gray wolf reintroduction) indicate that the basis of their demographic and behavioral resiliency is embedded in their evolutionary history. Coyotes evolved, and learned to coexist, in the presence of gray wolves—a dominant competitor and natural enemy that overlapped the historic range of coyotes in North America. Prior to widespread human persecution starting in the mid-nineteenth century, wolves have provided a constant selection factor inflicting mortality, competition, and numerous other sub-lethal effects."

^^^ See, you can't really compare coyotes to domestic dogs. Coyotes went down a completely different evolutionary path than domestic dogs.
 
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Bunch of may and suggested.. How do the coyotes know it is human mortality? I could see it more as younger yotes setting out on their own and taking over the territory..
 
epe said:
Bunch of may and suggested.. How do the coyotes know it is human mortality? I could see it more as younger yotes setting out on their own and taking over the territory..
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May and suggested... Those are terms you find in every piece of research out there, no matter what the topic. The scientific method never truly proves anything. Rather, evidence is suggestive of certain conclusions.

The coyotes don't know it's human-caused mortality. They're not responding specifically to human-caused mortality... They're responding to mortality in general. It just so happens that in most of the country humans are one of the only species causing this mortality.
 
Also, I don't think it has to do with litter size but rather the frequency of the bitch coming in to season. Predation can cause her to go in to heat faster. Take bears for instance. If a boar kills a sows cubs she will come in to season again. This is why boars will kill cubs. Especially if male. Once you start killing them they start throwing litters more frequently.
 
Jackalope said:
Also, I don't think it has to do with litter size but rather the frequency of the bitch coming in to season. Predation can cause her to go in to heat faster. Take bears for instance. If a boar kills a sows cubs she will come in to season again. This is why boars will kill cubs. Especially if male. Once you start killing them they start throwing litters more frequently.
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That, and the male "wants" his genetics to be spread... not the genetics of other males. Lions are the same way. A male lion that takes over a new pride will try to kill the young born from the previous alpha. Wolves probably do the same thing I imagine.

But I think you're absolutely right. The increased frequency of estrous is just a response to predation in general... an adapted trait... my pups got killed, I better make some more. Believe it or not, humans actually have the same response. Why do you think third-world countries have so many issues with overpopulation? Poor healthcare, poor water quality, poor overall living conditions... One would think this would result in slow population growth but actually the opposite is true. When you know your kids only have a 20% chance of living past age 5, you're going to spit out 8 to 10 of them to up your odds. Here in America, we're blessed with great healthcare and living conditions... We know our kids have a damn good chance of living until they're old... So we reproduce at a much slower rate.
 
This is very interesting guys! I can see where they would come into heat more often due to a predation spike. Damn good stuff.

You guys learned me something today! Diane offered some great insight TOO. Thanks for sharing y'all.
 
I don't think you can really compare bears to coyotes. To me, that's like comparing apples to oranges.

And yes, estrus cycles vary for lots of reasons and within each individual female. In dogs, it can vary from every 3 months to every 11 months and then different things can affect even that.

Several years ago I read an article put out by people against deer hunting. Completely against it. And their reasoning (and "scientific" proof) was that the more we hunt deer, the more fawns are produced and therefore we are causing deer over-population problems and if we would stop hunting, the population would naturally go down.

I thought it was the stupidest article I had ever read.

I think the majority of us in here would disagree that if we shoot does, the remaining does start producing triplets and quadruplets. Sure, I shot a doe that was carrying triplets, but that's not the norm. Most of them have 2 fawns, except for first time mated does usually have one fawn.

If I can't buy into the killing deer produces more deer, then how can I buy into the same theory when it applies to coyotes?

As for human over-population in poor countries, I'm sure access to birth control is greatly reduced and many of them follow the belief that birth control is wrong (that's a Biblical debate and not just Catholic) and deliberately have large families. Being poor and w/o good healthcare may result in more mortality, but I don't believe it has anything to do with having more babies to compensate for that. Having large families is a way of life to them and for reasons beyond how many will survive to old age.
 
How can you say we can't compare bears to coyotes... but then in the same post compare deer to coyotes???
 
I was talking estrus cycles being that they are not the same line of species and I figured when I re-read it that someone would call me on it! :smiley_bril:
 
xbowgirl said:
I was talking estrus cycles being that they are not the same line of species and I figured when I re-read it that someone would call me on it! :smiley_bril:
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Lol... Well the thing is, if coyotes to bears is apples to oranges... comparing deer to coyotes is watermelons to grapes. If we hunted and killed coyotes at the same rate that we hunt and kill deer, then yes we'd deplete the population. The problem is... we dont'... we don't even come close to that.
 
I can't say the deer wouldn't do the same but I do know they would eat themselves out of house and home and starve causing a die off before the population would drop and then level out. Then they would in turn have less deer eating the vegetation allowing it to grow back and start a vicious cycle all over again. With more food comes more healthy buck and does and having more fawns only to eat themselves out of house and home again.

PreDie off would also give more food to the yote for a time as there would be plenty of food to gain from the dead deer laying around. After the die off reaches it's end and starts to level off then so would the yote population. The more food the more yote. It is a sick balancing act and one side has to be the heavier at any given time. There will NEVER be a complete balance IMO
 
If we hunted and killed coyotes at the same rate that we hunt and kill deer, then yes we'd deplete the population.
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Exactly my point! lol

We should have teams for killing coyotes at some point. :smiley_cowboy:
 
I can see the female coming back into heat if she loses her pups early on before the pups are weened. But what would be the "trigger" for her later on?
 
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