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DIY Draw Board.... with PICS

jagermeister

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Ohio
I feel the design of the Z28 an other Elite made bows grips can make for a love or hate relationship.I have an do struggle with it at time..My buddy couldn't take it any more an got a aftermarket Torque-less grip for his GT500 .So that maybe a option there not to pricey if i remember right.There is a sticky thread on the Elite archery forum in the Tech section that has pics of how to apply a torque free hand placement with these grips..Its works I can say that!! Just a thought they an maybe it will help

Yea I know exactly what thread you are talking about. I've read it multiple times, and have tried it over and over and over again.... Still can't get rid of the right tear without adding thumb pressure to the grip. I don't know what the problem is...
 

jagermeister

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Alright guys, I think I have learned a great deal about tuning binary cam bows in the past few days. Once I completed this draw board, I couldn't stop tinkering around with my bow and the cams. I thought I had the cams in perfect sync after the first change, but I was wrong. After drawing the bow and shooting a few times, it still wasn't quite there. So I tinkered some more... and tinkered... and tinkered. After a day, I had installed a digital luggage scale on the drawboard... So then before I had a firm grasp on the cam rotation vs. cable twisting concept, I was looking at draw weight and how to change it. (stupid mistake) According to my scale, my bow was only peaking at 69#, which concerned me because when I bought the bow the shop scale said 73#. So I tinkered some more! Before I knew what hit me, I had a bunch of twists added to the cables, ATA was just a touch short, Brace height was just a touch long... and I had a fuckin terrible tail-high tear while paper tuning.... But by golly, my scale was reading 71# on the draw board! lmao

No matter what I did, I could not get rid of the high tear. I fooled with the rest height... I fooled with the nock height. The only way to shoot a bullet hole was with the arrow pointing at the sky. I knew this was not right. I pulled my hair out for a day, trying to figure this fugger out. Now today, I stood back and looked at my bow, cold Busch Light in hand, and told myself I just needed to start over... right from the beginning. This is where the importance of good notes comes into play. I was able to look through the notes I took while tuning, and see just how many twists I had to take out of each cable to get to where it all began... the way my bow was a week ago.

So I put the bow back to where it was and started over. I finally stood back and just thought the whole thing through. Trust me, tuning these bows is not difficult... But the concept of knowing which cable to twist or untwist, and how much, to make it do what you want was difficult for me to grasp at first. I think I got it now, but if I don't do it often enough, I'm sure a refresher will be necessary lol. Anyhow, one full twist into the bottom cam and a half-twist into the top cam ended up putting me right where I needed to be. Cams were in perfect time and sync'd right on the money. My drawboard scale is still only showing me 69# at peak, which I don't understand, but my other specs are all right on the money.... ATA dead on at 32 1/4", Brace height dead on at 7 3/4", and perfect tiller. At this point, I don't really give two shits about the draw weight.

Now after doing all this, I had the urge to pull the G5 Expert Pro off my bow and swap it out for my spare Vaportrail Limbdriver rest. I had the limbdriver installed on my bow when I bought it new, but swapped it for the expert pro due to the sheer quietness of the g5. Today I happened to stumble on some mole skin, so I doctored up the limbdriver and my bow shelf, and mounted it up. I set the rest height so that the center of my arrow passes through the center of the berger holes, and the arrow is 90-degrees to the string. Center shot needed adjusted a tad, but I'm happy to say the tail-high paper tear is gone!!! I'm still working on my grip, but when I get it just right it makes a great bullet hole in the paper. I'll be doing a walk-back tune this weekend to dial in my centershot and from there I'll have to work on the grip. It is such a great feeling to get a problem resolved and to have your bow shooting like it should... especially when you did all the work yourself!

Sorry for the long read, guys. I just wanted to share my experiences of the past week with you. It was quite frustrating at times... In fact, last night I just stood there staring at my bow on the drawboard, totally perplexed lmao... But it was totally worth it. I have learned quite a bit this past week when it comes to tuning bows. Like I said before, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to tune these bows... It just takes a little bit of time and tinkering to figure out "what does what" and how much. If any of you decide to get into this, do yourself a favor and keep detailed notes. I recorded exactly what I did to each cam, each cable, the string... and then recorded exactly how it affected cam dot orientation, ATA, brace, DW, DL, etc. Good notes are absolutely priceless. Without them, I would have just given up and took it to a shop to have them correct my mistakes. The notes allowed me to go back and re-work the problem.

A big thank you goes out to Milo... He is a great guy with a wealth of knowledge! If you ever need advice on bow set up and tuning, he's your guy!

Here's a pic with the limbdriver rest installed. That damn mole skin is the only camo I have on this bow lol.

limbdriver.jpg
 
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Fluteman

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Southeast Ohio
Thanks, Dan! I don't know if anyone else will be getting into this sort of thing, but I figured sharing my experience with it could be beneficial nonetheless.

I will be building one after bow season for sure. I had plans to build a press also, but I've been looking at the Ratchet-Loc Bow Press as a cheap and easy solution for the small amount of work I would be doing.
 

rgecko23

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Massillon, Ohio
nice dude....I would like to get into this myself. Having a GT500, I want to get it right. Especially when I am seeing other GTs shooting way faster than mine. Something is a miss...
 

jagermeister

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Wayne, them tree limbs rob speed like you wouldn't believe brother! lmao

Next year, I'd like to step up to a much better bow press... probably a linear version. Then a chronograph would be sweet to have, too. It seems that you can't really "supertune" one of these bows without a chrono.
 

jagermeister

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Ohio
I stumbled on a hell of a deal and I wanted to update this thread. Originally I had a cheap walmart digital luggage scale on my draw board, but I didn't like how it automatically locked on a weight and sometimes shut off after a minute or so. I then made the switch to a cheap analog luggage scale, also from walmart. This is the scale I am still using for the draw board right now, and it does work very well. However, there is a digital scale on ebay right now for dirt cheap and free shipping. According to a few reviews on AT, this is a solid, accurate scale and it does not lock up or shut off automatically. I think I'm going to pick one up just to try it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160705717422&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123
 

jagermeister

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Just a heads up... If you're interested in buying the scale in the ebay link I posted above, the seller gives the option to "make an offer." I offered $8 and it was accepted. Eight bucks to have a brand new digital 110# scale shipped to my house?.... That's what you call a no-brainer.
 
Just a heads up... If you're interested in buying the scale in the ebay link I posted above, the seller gives the option to "make an offer." I offered $8 and it was accepted. Eight bucks to have a brand new digital 110# scale shipped to my house?.... That's what you call a no-brainer.

How has that scale worked out for ya Jim?Have your been able to use it much?I see there down to 10$ now shipped from that seller,and that aint even speaking for the MAKE A OFFER option...Figured I would ask a question and revive a great DIY thread
 

jagermeister

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Ohio
How has that scale worked out for ya Jim?Have your been able to use it much?I see there down to 10$ now shipped from that seller,and that aint even speaking for the MAKE A OFFER option...Figured I would ask a question and revive a great DIY thread

Actually yes, I've used this new scale quite a bit since I bought it and it's working great. I definitely like it better than the two previous scales that I had rigged up. It's relatively small, turns on/off easily, and is very easy to read. Best of all, it doesn't "lock" onto a weight if it sits idle for a few seconds, like other digital luggage scales do... So I can stop the draw cycle at any moment, to check stops or whatever, and then continue drawing without any issues with the scale. Before, I'd have to let it all the way back down and reset the scale after it locked... What a PITA.

The only issue with this scale is the stock handle that comes attached to it. The handle is made for your hands, obviously, so it's squared off. This doesn't work well with a draw board because there's nothing to keep the attachment centered. To resolve this, I removed the stock handle and made my own V-shaped handle out of some mechanics wire. So far, it's working perfectly. I would HIGHLY recommend this scale for anyone building a DIY drawboard.

 

hickslawns

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Freaggin JBrown. You post up all this junk about DIY tuning. I go to SCO yesterday to get dialed in. My bow derails. Garrett derailed Milo's kids' bow. I am thinking I need to expand my range of knowledge. Love to have SCO right down the road but 2hrs away just isn't exactly "local" for me. JB's DIY posts are putting thoughts into my head along the lines of "Hmmm. . . maybe this isn't as hard as it appears". Thank you AND F-you, JB. lol

Baby steps. Rather than making any of you nervous, I will let you know I am willing to take baby steps here. Here are my thoughts:
1) Get my first pin or two set on the new sight.
2) Focus on form (which will probably start with reducing the 18lb trigger pull on my release haahaha)
3) Continue shooting and try some different things for noise reduction
4) Do a little more reading, asking, and educating muhself on arrows (thanks for turning on that lightbulb Milo)
5) Clean out part of the basement to establish a dedicated work area for bows and reloading
6) Slowly add equipment to do "a little" of my own work

Sorry to jump into your thread with a little side track Jim. It is my way of saying "Thanks" for inspiring some of us. Between you, Flutie, Milo, and all the others that do their own tweaking or helping others to tweak their bows. . . . . man is this a great site!

You think this is a nice progression Milo? As long as I don't try to do it all at once and go 100mph with both barrels blazing, I think it will be alright.

Thanks again for starting this thread Jim!
 

jagermeister

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Lol... Be careful what you wish for, Phil... This shit is highly addictive.

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That being said, it looks to me like your plan of attack should be ok. Here's the nice thing... You currently have two bows to play with, and two completely different cam systems. There's a lot that you could learn from both of those bows. If this is truly what you want to do, TAKE YOUR TIME and read read read, watch watch watch, study study study. Youtube, archerytalk, elite forum... all great places to learn some things. Watching, reading, and studying are all great learning tools, but there's no substitute for hands-on learning. The best part is, if you screw something up you're only screwing up your own gear... and you know a few guys that could help you get things straightened out if need be.