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How average hunters can fix the deer decline

Bigslam51

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#21
The Amish know no boundaries, they play the stupid card every time they get caught. Levi will say he didn't know where the property lines were. I'm kind of kicking myself in the ass for not calling the sheriff and GW on them when I caught them on my land with a doe they killed. I didn't plan on shooting any does at our property and then they come along and blast one in the throat.
 

Beentown

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#22
A little negativity here. While I agree with the OP and you; I also know that self policing contradictory to law is a pipe dream. Rainbows and unicorns don't exist and there will never be world peace. Hunters as a whole are absolutely incapable of policing themselves on a scale that will have a positive impact. We can't do it. That's the reason we have a DNR, to set laws and protect the heard . It's like saying. "We know the speed limit was removed, we know that's dangerous, we know everyone has been driving 115 MPH the past couple years, BUT we have a solution! The only thing everyone has to do is voluntarily drive 65 MPH and we'll be safe again. That's it. Everyone drive 65 mph voluntarily and we the people can fix this unsafe removal of speed limits. So while I agree with the OP, I also see it for what it is, a dream. If we were capable of doing such things we wouldn't need a DNR, or police, or weight loss clinics, or rehab facilities. It's not how civilization works. We're a nation of laws for a reason.
Nailed...
 

brock ratcliff

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#23
A little negativity here. While I agree with the OP and you; I also know that self policing contradictory to law is a pipe dream. Rainbows and unicorns don't exist and there will never be world peace. Hunters as a whole are absolutely incapable of policing themselves on a scale that will have a positive impact. We can't do it. That's the reason we have a DNR, to set laws and protect the heard . It's like saying. "We know the speed limit was removed, we know that's dangerous, we know everyone has been driving 115 MPH the past couple years, BUT we have a solution! The only thing everyone has to do is voluntarily drive 65 MPH and we'll be safe again. That's it. Everyone drive 65 mph voluntarily and we the people can fix this unsafe removal of speed limits. So while I agree with the OP, I also see it for what it is, a dream. If we were capable of doing such things we wouldn't need a DNR, or police, or weight loss clinics, or rehab facilities. It's not how civilization works. We're a nation of laws for a reason.

In your speed limit scenario, is the Ohio State Highway patrol urging people to drive faster? Are they promoting high speed as the way to improve the highways? After all, if enough travelers die, the ones left will have a better driving experience and may even start to drive bigger cars with more mass!
 

Jackalope

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#24
In your speed limit scenario, is the Ohio State Highway patrol urging people to drive faster? Are they promoting high speed as the way to improve the highways? After all, if enough travelers die, the ones left will have a better driving experience and may even start to drive bigger cars with more mass!
That's exactly what they're doing.
 

Mooosie

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#25
I think a hunter landowner can do a lot to manage the herd on his land. I have 70 acres in vinton county, two guys on my south line have 30 acres apiece on the back is paper co land and to the east a fellow has 166 acres we all have food plots I have 24 acres in crp quail habitat and the in beans one year and corn the next. With food plots in a couple of creek bottoms. We take very few does and pass on bucks that are not at least 3 . It doesn't matter how many odnr says we can take we are not going to take that many. Trust me we have many huge bucks on our combined land and we bide our time. Our herd is big fat and growing in numbers . It is not hard you just can't be gready
 

Bigslam51

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#26
I think a hunter landowner can do a lot to manage the herd on his land. I have 70 acres in vinton county, two guys on my south line have 30 acres apiece on the back is paper co land and to the east a fellow has 166 acres we all have food plots I have 24 acres in crp quail habitat and the in beans one year and corn the next. With food plots in a couple of creek bottoms. We take very few does and pass on bucks that are not at least 3 . It doesn't matter how many odnr says we can take we are not going to take that many. Trust me we have many huge bucks on our combined land and we bide our time. Our herd is big fat and growing in numbers . It is not hard you just can't be gready
You are one of the few that owns property with neighbors that cooperate. Not many people have it like that. How many acres does the paper company own?
 
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#27
I think a hunter landowner can do a lot to manage the herd on his land. I have 70 acres in vinton county, two guys on my south line have 30 acres apiece on the back is paper co land and to the east a fellow has 166 acres we all have food plots I have 24 acres in crp quail habitat and the in beans one year and corn the next. With food plots in a couple of creek bottoms. We take very few does and pass on bucks that are not at least 3 . It doesn't matter how many odnr says we can take we are not going to take that many. Trust me we have many huge bucks on our combined land and we bide our time. Our herd is big fat and growing in numbers . It is not hard you just can't be gready
No doubt it can be effective if you and your neighbors show restraint along with your neighbors neighbors, and your neighbors neighbors neighbors. Just hard to get that king of cooperation from others, as evidenced by all of the varying opinions on the state of the Ohio deer herd and hunting opportunities.
 

Mooosie

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#28
You guys are pretty much right , in that all my neighbors and I are farming deer and turkeys. However deer respond to hunting pressure , I can't give you numbers but by providing food and cover and not shooting everything we see I think a lot of deer don't roam to far so they don't get shot if we don't shoot them
 

Mooosie

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#29
Oh and about the paper co , don't know how much they own , but we are on an edge and with the lay of the neighbors land the only access would be from the opposite side and no one seems to hunt much close to us
 
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#30
You are fortunate, I hope you and your neighbors can keep it going.

I have hunted the same very large piece of property for over 25 years, it is a lot of pasture with patches of woods and I can see for a long, long way, we have never in any year taken more than five deer and that was years ago, most years average 2-3, But the adjoining properties get blown up really hard with the large organized drives and we have been the last couple of years finding more and more dead bucks with just their skull cap and antlers missing. We have deer and quite a few deer but nothing close to some years ago. I hate to watch deer leave the property during the gun season as many never get a chance to make it back. I don't begrudge anyone getting a deer but they kill anything and everything they see, if they can.
 

dante322

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#31
I think a hunter landowner can do a lot to manage the herd on his land. I have 70 acres in vinton county, two guys on my south line have 30 acres apiece on the back is paper co land and to the east a fellow has 166 acres we all have food plots I have 24 acres in crp quail habitat and the in beans one year and corn the next. With food plots in a couple of creek bottoms. We take very few does and pass on bucks that are not at least 3 . It doesn't matter how many odnr says we can take we are not going to take that many. Trust me we have many huge bucks on our combined land and we bide our time. Our herd is big fat and growing in numbers . It is not hard you just can't be gready
You're a lucky guy. Enjoy that and hope it stays that way.
 

giles

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#32

triple_duece

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#33
While the numbers in the article are or could be correct, there are plenty more variables that can be no absolute to any piece.

I own 179 acres. What influences my property more than any is my neighbors. Deer travel way more than my little piece of heaven. If they passing I see plenty of deer. If one neighbor won’t let his barrel cool down, well you know the result.

IMO too many deer are not good and neither is just a couple. Every piece of ground is individual as you or I. I have ag fields to the east and west. It’s holds and feeds deer during the growing season. In the hunting season my carry capacity is more than my land should have. Typically I’ve read where a good 640 would support 19 deer.

I use my sightings to judge how many deer should be taken. I’m not a trophy hunter but hunt for trophies if that make sense. Typically we kill and eat 6 deer a year. Last year two deer was killed on the property and 3 deer and 2 hogs were taken on public land.

I’ve seen bleak years and bumper years and still not effecting the numbers cause we weren’t killing but 2-3 on the property. The difference was my neighbors.

So while everyone is looking for that magical fix, there is none. Only thing we can do is if Mother Nature throws a curve ball and knocks down the numbers is not kill for a quicker rebound. I did this last year in Arkansas. First trip there, we get there and there is no deer. Come to find out 50% died during the summer due to a fly. I passed on a doe and we left the next morning. No need to hurt what was already hurting.

Food for thought. Years ago our public land had plenty deer. X amount of doe days and mostly bow hunting with a few weeks of bucks only. Big buck kills were few and in between. Then comes any day is a doe day. Killing was easier and numbers have declined by 66%. Used to be 4-1 hunter effort to kill. Now it’s 13 to 15-1. The simple math is easy. You kill more does, the resource can’t rebound quick enough.

Today’s world is trophy or pass that young buck. If you want meat kill a doe. Guess what’s happening......
 

giles

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#35
Anyone found any research on a cure or mineral we can put out to help fight the midge? It’s going to be bad again with all this water laying around...the writing is on the wall, let’s not ignore it.
 

triple_duece

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#36
Anyone found any research on a cure or mineral we can put out to help fight the midge? It’s going to be bad again with all this water laying around...the writing is on the wall, let’s not ignore it.
Just the opposite. Blue tongue is worse in drought years. Congregates deer and the midge fly in small areas.

EHD happens every year. Most times it goes unnoticed because of numbers that get affected.
 
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giles

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#37
Just the opposite. Blue tongue is worse in drought years. Congregates deer and the midge fly in small areas.

EHD happens every year. Most times it goes unnoticed because of numbers that get affected.
Negative, the break out we had here with EHD/midge fly happened after a real wet spring. The midge fly breeds and strives in stagnant water pools. This year we will have more stagnant pools of water then ever before. That is, once it stops raining.
 

giles

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#39
I get that, what I’m trying to say is that we have the same thing happen with a crazy wet spring. The same habitat is created to have a midge outbreak. Two years ago my area and Jefferson county area had EHD pretty bad. We had a real wet spring that created pools of water that went stagnant. The rest is history. This year we have even more water laying around then I can ever remember. All we need is the hot dry weather and we are shit up a creek, bub.
 

triple_duece

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#40
Late summer is the concern. When in a drought then it will congratulate deer in small infected areas. Deer are browsers up to 80% or more. Most of the water intake is through browse. When in a drought, it’s hotter, browse has less moisture and less available water to be found. The midge fly with its few breading grounds are at the only available water. More deer drink here and better chance of getting infected. This is not the absolute, but more likely the result.

We have water down here, way more than any midwestern could imagine. We have plenty of stagnant water and don’t get ehd bad until we have a late summer drought. Even at bad breakouts, it’s not region wide as some areas are affected worse in the same geographical area. The difference is amount of availability water. Some areas dry up andonly have select water available. Where as a mile away there is hardly any affect.