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"No Mans Land"

Ever place a shot in "No Mans Land?"

  • No Idea- This is the first I've ever hear tell of it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8

CJD3

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#1
Just was reading a story about hitting a deer in " No Mans Land"; the area at the top of a deers back but between the spine and lungs. Now I never gave the shot much thought but its worth a post here...

The big debate is that its real/not real. Some have said its there and they have seen deer hit there and days/weeks later saw or harvested the deer acting fine, chasing does and healing fine. Some even report old scars. Others say its not real and say the lung was being exhaled or the hit was bad.

So, my string plucken brothers... Any input?
Anyone ever have a hit in "No Mans Land?"
 

formerbowhunter1023

Now Posts as Jesse..
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SE Ohio
#2
I used to firmly believe in "No Mans Land" as it was the easiest way to describe my first fugg up in the whitetail woods. However, I have changed that opinion over the years. I used to think it was an easy space to hit and that several deer were lost to that area. I've cut open enough deer to know that there is a small likelihood of missing high and avoiding anything lethal. I can see the lungs deflating on exhale, leaving a space large enough to cause little to no damage. What I think happens in reality 9 out of 10 cases of "No Mans Land" is hitting high in the offside lung or not having the penatration to reach the offside lung. It gives the a novice hunter the impression that there must not be anything there. (Guilty) But when that same novice hunter evolves, he learns the lack of penatration cause by shooting too light an arrow combined with a high hit, creates a less than lethal hit. (Again, guilty.)

In recap, I think it is possible to put an arrow high in a deer and miss making a lethal hit. However, I don't believe in a "void" in the cavity. I'm willing to bet 95% of "No Mans Land" hits are high, offside lung hits or hits that would have hit high offside lung but lacked penatration to do so. Deer are amazingly tough and a high hit to the lung, especially a nick, is not enough to stop a healthy, mature animal. "No Mans Land" exists more as an excuse or crutch, than as an actual space IMO.
 
1,571
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60
Swanton, Ohio
#3
I never believed it until I saw it with my own eyes. I think it is VERY rare and almost impossible to happen from a treestand. Thinking back I have seen it twice, both shots were taken from the ground. I'll relate the story of what happened tpo me, the other time I saw this happen was to a buddy 15 years ago so I don't remember the details that well.

Give me a few minutes, I need to head into a meeting.
 

CJD3

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#5
I never believed it until I saw it with my own eyes. I think it is VERY rare and almost impossible to happen from a treestand. Thinking back I have seen it twice, both shots were taken from the ground. I'll relate the story of what happened tpo me, the other time I saw this happen was to a buddy 15 years ago so I don't remember the details that well.

Give me a few minutes, I need to head into a meeting.
I was thinking the only poss. is from the ground. I just can't see it from a tree stand due to the angle.

Interested in this - where's the link?
The story is in Sportsman's Bowhunting Annual #82, page 20.( no month but bought in sep.)
The article is called-"Finding the bottom line of No Mans Land, by Mike Hanback
I had never run across it but evidently its a subject of debate...
See! See the stuff you learn about here at T.O.O.
 

Jackalope

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#10
I used to firmly believe in "No, creates a less than lethal hit. (Again, guilty.)

In recap, I think it is possible to put an arrow high in a deer and miss making a lethal hit. However, I don't believe in a "void" in the cavity. I'm willing to bet 95% of "No Mans Land" hits are high, offside lung hits or hits that would have hit high offside lung but lacked penatration to do so. Deer are amazingly tough and a high hit to the lung, especially a nick, is not enough to stop a healthy, mature animal. "No Mans Land" exists more as an excuse or crutch, than as an actual space IMO.
You're right Jesse. There isn't a void in a deers cavity. Any animal with a diaphragm has similar to a vacuum inside their chest cavity. It's airtight. As the diaphragm moves it causes the lungs to fill and expel air. The reason this works is the throat is the only opening to the outside. So when the diaphragm moves down and makes the chest cavity larger. Air is sucked in the lungs. When the diaphragm moves upwards or forward in deer the cavity is made smaller and air is exhaled. What happens is at the moment of impact the chest cavity is punctured thus making another hole. This loss in pressure causes the top of the lungs to sag down.. Kind of like a dip in the top of the lungs. A deer can live with this loss in pressure, just with reduced lung capacity as now they can't inflate all the way. This is why people with non lung hit chest wounds have shallow breathing. Anyway when those lungs sag. It is theoretically possible for them to be missed by the broadhead. It was saying this is almost impossible to do from a stand as the gap created isn't that big. But it happens more from the ground as the arrow has to go over both lungs. Look at it like a semi collapsed lung from a chest puncture. Least that's what some article i read a while back said..
 
1,571
14
60
Swanton, Ohio
#11
Looking at the pic posted by CJD3 it would seem it is impossible to hit a void. I have seen that pic before and scratch my head. I only thing I can say before I type my story is I guess the arrow could go over the spine, but the wound on the deer I shot sure seemed lower than that.

About % years ago we decided to make use of an abandoned metal building during the late season. It provided protection from the late season wind and cold temps. You could move around a bit and there is room for multiple hunters. I put some corn out and cut some shooting windows.

I had hunted it in the past but nothing ever presented a shot. I decided even with rain moving in I would hunt the spot on New Year's eve 4-5 years ago. I even took my laptop with me so I could watch the radar and keep track pof how much time I had before the rain hit.

I had a 1.5 year old doe come in and present a good broad side shoot, the rain looked to be an hour away so I shot. The arrow looked a little high but I did not doubt it was a dead deer. I called a buddy to help track and got out of my heavy clothes while I waited for him. We no sooner got tracking and the skies opened up, I mean a total downpour. We looked for two hours in the pouring rain. In spots there was gullies filled with balls deep water. We were soaked and dejected when we finally gave up. The next morning another buddy looked for 3 hours with no luck. Two of us went back midday and looked for another 3-4 hours, founfd the arrow right beyond where the deer was standing where shot, but never found the deer.

I gave the stand a couple weeks to cool down before I hunted it agian. I had a deer come in maybe 10 minutes before the end of legal time. I could see the wound on both sides of the deer. A complete hole, a little high but I still could not figure out how it was not dead. It never gave me a good shot angle so I could just watch it. I hunted the rest of the season trying to kill that deer but I never got another shot at it. I saw it 3-4 times but one thing or another happened and I just could not seal the deal.

The following spring we saw old "hole back", with a scar and none the worse for the wear more than once. We never did kill that deer.
 

RedCloud

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#13
The one shot in a million is hitting that " No Mans Land " There is a small void just under the spine right between the vertabre that an arrow and small diamiter BH with fit without hitting anything vital. When I shoot my next one I will show you the spot I am talking about. The bigger the animal the bigger that sweet spot gets.
 

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RedCloud

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#16
I believe it is possible, but not going to happen in a stand. I think it would have to be a shot from the ground.
Agreed. The few times I have seen or heard of it being done it was while stalking and shooting from the ground. All though I guess it might be possible for a shot from a stand given a straight down shot to part the lungs and never touch them and the deer would be left with a sucking chest wound. Strange things happen all the time and sometimes the animals win. Like I said though, I believe it is a one in a million shot and probably couldn't be done easily if one tried.
 

formerbowhunter1023

Now Posts as Jesse..
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SE Ohio
#19
The one shot in a million is hitting that " No Mans Land " There is a small void just under the spine right between the vertabre that an arrow and small diamiter BH with fit without hitting anything vital. When I shoot my next one I will show you the spot I am talking about. The bigger the animal the bigger that sweet spot gets.
I know the area you are referring to, but I classify this as a different area than a "No Mans Land". To me the concep to a "NML" refers to a shot breaking into the vitals and the chest cavity. A shot landing in the area you described (if I'm envisioning the same one) is outside this area. To me, that's just a shitty shot and the "NML" doesn't come in to play. Kinda like calling a shot in the hams a shot in "NML"...
 

Buckmaster

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#20
No man's land = excuse for making a poor shot on a deer.
I disagree. I found NML once at a 12 yard shot from a treestand 18 foot up.
I hit 2/3 high on the input shoulder figuring it would come out slightly low on the opposite shoulder.
My Thunderhead was a pass through shot from a Horton 150# crossbow.
I figured that deer was dead to rights. After a 3/4 mile track job the following day I was wrong when the blood trail had dried up.
I'm still haunted to this day. All I remember is mass, double brow tines, and 250# beneath me at 12 yards slightly quartering away.