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Thank you buddy! I am learning a lot as I share, so it is super interesting for me!! I cannot wait to take some soil tests this spring!!
No Till Food Plots - So Easy
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Thank you buddy! I am learning a lot as I share, so it is super interesting for me!! I cannot wait to take some soil tests this spring!!
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Guys - I must clarify a mistake I made, as I was thinking about this last night, I realized that I mentioned C8 and brassica root exudates breaking down that chemical structure.....
Boy, I could not have been more wrong. The article talks about PAHS - which are "Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)" - I am familiar with this term due to my job and dealing with some EU regulations, where a manufacturer must register sub PPM measurements of chemicals listed as PAHs - in order to be certified in the EU. My understanding, is the fear of long term health impacts of PAHS on the human body, once exposure reaches a certain point (most notably acting carcinogenic). The fact that brassica roots exudates break down some of these, is still fairly fascinating.
As for C8 - that is actually a PFAS - Perfluorooctanoic acid. Also known as - perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalky substances. More information on that below.
PFAS and C8 Explained - Environmental Engineering
The term PFAS refers to perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalkyl substances which are a large group of synthetic chemicals that include PFOA and PFOS.
www.geoforward.com
Sorry about the side track, but I do NOT want to be know for sharing mis or poor information. I am not a chemist, so it was simply a mix up of acronyms by this armature!
Next post will be back to our regular scheduled programming about soil!!
AT
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Well I am not in a position to tell a farmer what/how they should do something -I am just an armature dude who likes growing OM and occasionally a fat doe or nice buck. However, if I was a full time farmer, I can tell you I would be using a cover crop mix - and brassicas would be included. They store nitrogen in the soil making it bio available for the next crop - plus a lot of other benefits. I would also want rye grain (for reasons stated above) and a legume to sequester more atmospheric nitrogen and work with bacteria in soil to make it available as well for future crops. By having this balance of plants, you also balance the C/N ratios of what is being planted on that field.
One thing I never will subject myself to again is the idea that a mono-culture is "good" or "correct". I believe diversity is king!!
Link below on some benefits of CC.
10 reasons to use cover crops
Salute Soil Health: Do you need to convince a landlord that cover crops are the way to go? Here are 10 benefits that should help sway him or her.
excerpt from link below:
1. Cover crops help use moisture. Cover crops can be designed to take up high amounts of moisture to actually help fields dry out for planting in the spring.
2. Cover crops increase water infiltration. Deep-rooting cover crops build organic matter and break through soil compaction layers, increasing water infiltration and reducing ponding on the soil’s surface.
3. Cover crops can suppress weeds. Some cover crops such as cereal rye can help suppress weeds if managed as an integral part of an Integrated Pest Management system.
4. Cover crops can be a source of livestock feed. If managed as part of a prescribed grazing or forage harvest system, cover crops can feed livestock as well as help minimize soil compaction and alleviate other potential issues.
5. Cover crops can feed wildlife. Some cover crops provide direct food resources to wildlife if managed properly. In addition, earthworms and insects that flourish in cover crop fields are excellent food sources for northern bobwhite quail and other bird species.
6. Some cover crop species fix nitrogen in the soil. Legume cover crops will fix nitrogen for next year’s production crop. Just be aware it may take time before the decaying cover cop returns that N to the soil.
7. Other cover crops scavenge for existing nitrogen in the soil. Deep-rooting cover crops gather nitrogen from deep in the soil profile and release the N in the rooting zone as plants decay. This N becomes available for future crops.
8. Cover crops can reduce soil erosion. Coverage of the soil provided by cover crops reduces both wind and water erosion.
9. Cover crops recycle nutrients within the soil. Living plants are crucial to the nutrient cycle. Soil biology is driven by living plants. A field with good nutrient cycling will build soil organic matter.
10. Cover crops build organic matter. Use the full growing season to harvest sunlight to build organic matter over time.
Thank you all for following along!
AT
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I really enjoy the cover crop talk. Almost sickens me to see all these fields go unused to be pumped full of chemicals. Fence these bad boys back in and start using them the way they used to. With the adding of cover crops I would think these farmers could be money ahead. The watersheds would improve, wildlife would improve, all wins.
Ohiosam
*Supporting Member*
There are many reasons why more farmers don't use more cover crops. Timing of planting cover crops can be an issue. In the spring if you kill a cover crop and it turns wet it takes much longer to dry the soil out, delaying planting hurts yields. If you plant into soil with lots of residue there can be problems with slugs and other insects and diseases. The cost of seed, equipment, fuel, labor.
Increasing organic matter with cover crops is nearly impossible. There is roughly 2 million pounds of top soil (6 inches deep)in an acre. To raise it 1% point takes 20,000 of dry matter. A good crop of corn is about 3-4 ton of dry matter, most cover crops produce much lower amounts of dry matter. Soil types, crops grown, crop rotations all play a factor.
Don't get me wrong, there are benefits but you can't ignore the problems. I have used some cover crops for many years and understand both sides. They have place but aren't magic.
Increasing organic matter with cover crops is nearly impossible. There is roughly 2 million pounds of top soil (6 inches deep)in an acre. To raise it 1% point takes 20,000 of dry matter. A good crop of corn is about 3-4 ton of dry matter, most cover crops produce much lower amounts of dry matter. Soil types, crops grown, crop rotations all play a factor.
Don't get me wrong, there are benefits but you can't ignore the problems. I have used some cover crops for many years and understand both sides. They have place but aren't magic.
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Sam, if my memory serves me correctly - you are a farmer. With that being said, I am not going to argue with you - as your experience far out weighs my reading/experimenting on a small scale.
I will simply respectfully disagree with some of the points. Going back through this thread there are hours of videos that can be watched talking about how Regen AG works by some of the smartest soil scientist in the USA. I also referenced a few books that can be read, that document some significant changes from water infiltration increases to OM increases. This is heavily impacted by reducing inputs, limiting herbicide, cover crop usage, and no till methods. David Brandt has been doing this in Fairfield County Ohio, since 1971. http://www.notill.org/david-brandt
I appreciate your input and following along.
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Another large reason more farmers are currently stuck "in a rut" is due to economic constraints. They need govt. subsidies, and rightly so! Right now our current govt. programs force farmers to follow "conventional" practices - likewise so do crop insurance programs. They are not able to take the risk of changing to regen AG, on a whim that it'll work in a few years.
Above is paraphrased from Dirt to Soil via Gabe Brown, I believe, going from memory. However, it makes a lot of sense. As we have seen by various govt. publications, there is more and more interest in no till, and cover crop methods, this will help to mitigate the risk of the farmer.
Ohiosam
*Supporting Member*
Yep, I don't know shit, so I let you experts explain it.
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Sam - this is awesome picture- thank you for sharing.
To be fair and defend myself for a second - I have mentioned on numerous occasions that I am not an expert. This is also why, I have tried to site every bit of information I have put on this thread. I know that by putting this information out there, without me being farmer, it seems as though I have zero credibility, which is true and maybe that is fair, so I wanted to provide a Link to reviewed research by farmers or soil scientist to all my posts.
I started this thread in an effort to show others what has worked for me and also try to make it an area rich with content, specifically focused around REGEN AG practices for food plots, far different then farming.
I always love to learn more about others idea/inputs/experiences. Your post was well received by me and I am currently reading more on some of the topics you brought up - as I found them very interesting.
All that to say, I just have a passion for soil and soil health. If I rubbed you or anyone reading this as a know it all, expert - that was not my intention.
AT
Ohiosam
*Supporting Member*
Just remember there's a lot of bullshit info out there on farming, often from people selling something (books, speaking fees, seed, chemicals etc.). And what works one place might not work at another place or with different crops. What works on a small plot isn't necessarily practical over large areas and visa versa. I used to rent a farm that was only a mile away from my home farm. The soils were completely different. I absolutely couldn't grow cover crops or no-til that ground (I tried) the soils were too heavy.
Most farmers don't farm the way they do because they are lazy, stupid, greedy or controlled by the government. They do it because it works on their land with their crops. Every farmer I know is always interested in how to do a better job. If a farmer in the area changes something and it works you'll see the neighbors adopting the practice shortly. If cover crops worked 1/2 as well as the books and videos say you would see a bunch more people doing it. I explained in my first post why while it looks good on paper there are real issues in the real world.
Most farmers don't farm the way they do because they are lazy, stupid, greedy or controlled by the government. They do it because it works on their land with their crops. Every farmer I know is always interested in how to do a better job. If a farmer in the area changes something and it works you'll see the neighbors adopting the practice shortly. If cover crops worked 1/2 as well as the books and videos say you would see a bunch more people doing it. I explained in my first post why while it looks good on paper there are real issues in the real world.
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Sam, thank you for the additional points and context- I love hearing real world examples. A few very good friends of mine farm (nothing huge but a few hundred acres of grain) and we have had many long discussions on these very topics. I never leave one of those convos without learning something. So please let me be clear, I appreciate farmers and your input immensely.
Ohiosam
*Supporting Member*
I will say this about the government programs, including crop insurance. They encourage over production (when prices are low farmers continue to grow unprofitable crops because the subsidies), they also take away some of the risk of crop farming marginal ground that might be better used other ways. The programs don't discourage good farming practices, often they require it.
One trend I see that has me worried is farm land ownership by foreign countries and investment groups. Those kind of owners want top dollar rent and don't care much about the land. It used to be the land was owned by a retired farmer or his kids and they would take less money if the farmer took better care of the land.
One trend I see that has me worried is farm land ownership by foreign countries and investment groups. Those kind of owners want top dollar rent and don't care much about the land. It used to be the land was owned by a retired farmer or his kids and they would take less money if the farmer took better care of the land.
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Really interesting podcast I listened to today. One side is from a wildlife biologist perspective and the other a NRCS/production AG farmer in Coffee county - TN.
Fascinating to hear both approaches- similarities,differences and how they have a hybrid model in many ways.
An interesting moment for me was when they talked about crimping 18tons of biomass per acre and planting green. - for AG production!! The amount of funding and support this gentleman has received for the farmers in his county was also extremely impressive (10MM).
Hope one or two of you enjoy. Thanks for following along. Be well!
podcasts.apple.com
Fascinating to hear both approaches- similarities,differences and how they have a hybrid model in many ways.
An interesting moment for me was when they talked about crimping 18tons of biomass per acre and planting green. - for AG production!! The amount of funding and support this gentleman has received for the farmers in his county was also extremely impressive (10MM).
Hope one or two of you enjoy. Thanks for following along. Be well!
Drop-Tine Podcast -The official deer management, food plot & habitat podcast
Nature Podcast · 3 Seasons · Updated Bimonthly
podcasts.apple.com
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Ohiosam
*Supporting Member*
Bill Gates, the fourth richest person in the world and a self-described nerd who is known for his early programming skills rather than his love of the outdoors, has been quietly snatching up 242,0000 acres of farmland across the U.S. — enough to make him the top private farmland owner in America.
After years of reports that he was purchasing agricultural land in places like Florida and Washington, The Land Report revealed that Gates, who has a net worth of nearly $121 billion according to Forbes, has built up a massive farmland portfolio spanning 18 states. His largest holdings are in Louisiana (69,071 acres), Arkansas (47,927 acres) and Nebraska (20,588 acres). Additionally, he has a stake in 25,750 acres of transitional land on the west side of Phoenix, Arizona, which is being developed as a new suburb.
According to The Land Report’s research, the land is held directly and through third-party entities by Cascade Investments, Gates’ personal investment vehicle. Cascade’s other investments include food-safety company Ecolab, used-car retailer Vroom and Canadian National Railway.
While it may be surprising that a tech billionaire would also be the biggest farmland owner in the country, this is not Gates’ only foray into agriculture. In 2008, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation announced $306 million in grants to promote high-yield, sustainable agriculture among smallholder farmers in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia. The foundation has further invested in the development and proliferation of “super crops” resistant to climate change and higher-yield dairy cows. Last year, the organization announced Gates Ag One, a nonprofit to advance those efforts.
It is not entirely clear how Gates’ farmland is being used, or whether any of the land is being set aside for conservation. (Cascade did not return Forbes’ request for comment.) However, there is some indication that the land could be used in a way that aligns with the foundation’s values. Cottonwood Ag Management, a subsidiary of Cascade, is a member of Leading Harvest, a nonprofit that promotes sustainable agriculture standards that prioritize protections of crops, soil and water resources.
Gates is not the only billionaire on The Land Report’s list of top private farmland owners. Wonderful Company cofounders Stewart and Lynda Resnick (net worth: $7.1 billion) ranked number three with 190,000 acres. Their farmland produces the goods for their brands including POM Wonderful, Wonderful Pistachios and Wonderful Halos mandarins.
While Gates may be the country’s biggest farmland owner, he by no means is the largest individual landowner. In its list of 100 top American landowners, The Land Report gives the top spot to Liberty Media Chair John Malone, who owns 2.2 million acres of ranches and forests. CNN founder Ted Turner ranked number three with 2 million acres of ranch land across eight states. Even Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is investing in land on a large scale, landing the 25th spot with his ownership of 420,000 acres, mainly in west Texas.
www.forbes.com
After years of reports that he was purchasing agricultural land in places like Florida and Washington, The Land Report revealed that Gates, who has a net worth of nearly $121 billion according to Forbes, has built up a massive farmland portfolio spanning 18 states. His largest holdings are in Louisiana (69,071 acres), Arkansas (47,927 acres) and Nebraska (20,588 acres). Additionally, he has a stake in 25,750 acres of transitional land on the west side of Phoenix, Arizona, which is being developed as a new suburb.
According to The Land Report’s research, the land is held directly and through third-party entities by Cascade Investments, Gates’ personal investment vehicle. Cascade’s other investments include food-safety company Ecolab, used-car retailer Vroom and Canadian National Railway.
While it may be surprising that a tech billionaire would also be the biggest farmland owner in the country, this is not Gates’ only foray into agriculture. In 2008, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation announced $306 million in grants to promote high-yield, sustainable agriculture among smallholder farmers in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia. The foundation has further invested in the development and proliferation of “super crops” resistant to climate change and higher-yield dairy cows. Last year, the organization announced Gates Ag One, a nonprofit to advance those efforts.
It is not entirely clear how Gates’ farmland is being used, or whether any of the land is being set aside for conservation. (Cascade did not return Forbes’ request for comment.) However, there is some indication that the land could be used in a way that aligns with the foundation’s values. Cottonwood Ag Management, a subsidiary of Cascade, is a member of Leading Harvest, a nonprofit that promotes sustainable agriculture standards that prioritize protections of crops, soil and water resources.
Gates is not the only billionaire on The Land Report’s list of top private farmland owners. Wonderful Company cofounders Stewart and Lynda Resnick (net worth: $7.1 billion) ranked number three with 190,000 acres. Their farmland produces the goods for their brands including POM Wonderful, Wonderful Pistachios and Wonderful Halos mandarins.
While Gates may be the country’s biggest farmland owner, he by no means is the largest individual landowner. In its list of 100 top American landowners, The Land Report gives the top spot to Liberty Media Chair John Malone, who owns 2.2 million acres of ranches and forests. CNN founder Ted Turner ranked number three with 2 million acres of ranch land across eight states. Even Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos is investing in land on a large scale, landing the 25th spot with his ownership of 420,000 acres, mainly in west Texas.
America’s Biggest Owner Of Farmland Is Now Bill Gates
The Microsoft billionaire has been quietly building a 242,000-acre portfolio of agricultural land across 18 states.
www.forbes.com
All ground is different. Like Sam said, what works in one area does not necessarily work in another. No-till up here where I live, in heavy clay, predominantly hydric soils, can be very difficult and often times fruitless. I think all of this Regen Ag stuff is awesome... I think it’s great... I really do. I also know every farmer I know wants to do what is best for their land and their livelihoods. Although there are a lot of ways each side can learn from each other, the fact is that farming for a living and planting food plots for deer are entirely different things. I’m not saying anything we all don’t already know here. Al you bring a ton of excellent and useful information to the table. I hope you continue to do so. And I think Sam brings an incredible amount of real world knowledge to the conversation as well.
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Thanks Jim!
To be clear to all-
I’m not sure if this thread showed me not believing or understanding farmers - I work with several and have best friends who have farmed all their lives, I never want my presentation of information to come across that way. If anything I said came out that way, I apologize. I also don’t want to act if this is a one size fits all solution. I’ve listened to far to many farmers and scientist discuss how each sight needs a different “plan” to take advantage of the natural soil micro -biome.
I recognize there are variances in soil types as well as, ones needs for yields vs. for hobby.
My only goal of this thread was to show guys how to build soil for foodplots and in an effort to not seem like a quack - I shared links to peer reviewed research, PhD scientists, farmers, etc.
Every comment I have made or suggestion, I’ve tried to back with a source, again to create some credibility but in no way to discredit anyone else.
I plan to continue to share information that I find useful or interesting, I hope some will continue to enjoy. I also plan to continue to document my own experiences but in no way to promote myself as an expert.
Lastly don’t take my word for things - I don’t know anything! Please read some of the books I’ve shared, articles, or listen to the podcasts - those are the experts and why I have shared it.
As always, thanks all for reading.Much respect for all here.
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Well it has been a bit since I gave an update.
Spent some time examine browse this past weekend. Amazing to see how much food the deer have consumed. I am thankful for the bulbs as I don’t believe they’ll be able to consume the thousands that are in the fields.
As you can see, they are doing all they can to eat as many as possible.
here is a picture that shows a lot of the “green” leaf matter of the brassicas is starting to breakdown. It has been chewed, spit out, stepped on, etc. All good things for the OM building process.
Lastly - the reason I just love rye grain. It is so easy to plant and deer just hammer the stuff. As I have shared above, it has some fantastic soil benefits as well. Rye poking through the snow, feeding the deer and the soil - pretty darn cool!!
Thanks for following along!
AT
Spent some time examine browse this past weekend. Amazing to see how much food the deer have consumed. I am thankful for the bulbs as I don’t believe they’ll be able to consume the thousands that are in the fields.
As you can see, they are doing all they can to eat as many as possible.
here is a picture that shows a lot of the “green” leaf matter of the brassicas is starting to breakdown. It has been chewed, spit out, stepped on, etc. All good things for the OM building process.
Lastly - the reason I just love rye grain. It is so easy to plant and deer just hammer the stuff. As I have shared above, it has some fantastic soil benefits as well. Rye poking through the snow, feeding the deer and the soil - pretty darn cool!!
Thanks for following along!
AT