To many deer odnr
- Thread starter Wiley E Coyote
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Fucker. 
Grab you a few cases and come to Strouds for 7 nights next year. I'll save your picnic table.
Grab you a few cases and come to Strouds for 7 nights next year. I'll save your picnic table.
Betcha he won’t!!!!Fucker.
Strike 3 for the Myth of the Genetic “Cull Buck”
The facts have been thoroughly checked: We can’t manage genetics of wild deer and produce measurable change. A new study help bury an old myth about cull bucks.
deerassociation.com
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Strike 3 for the Myth of the Genetic “Cull Buck”
The facts have been thoroughly checked: We can’t manage genetics of wild deer and produce measurable change. A new study help bury an old myth about cull bucks.
Interesting. The consensus across all three studies was that genetics plays very little if any role. I'm not going to argue in the face of such long-running studies. I will however give you something to ponder. If genetics plays an insignificant role then how is it that even a novice hunter can easily recognize genetic patterns in certain areas? We've all walked into the local check station that had decades of buck pictures on the wall. It doesn't take long before you start to notice genetic traits for that area. It could be a propensity to grow split brows, chocolate racks, common base split G2s, palmations etc. From check stations, to old deer camp photos, to the old man down the road with decades of wall hangers, there is always a genetic commonality for that area. Is it perhaps that all the studies focused on manipulating and studying all the desirable genetic traits, but ignored the abnormalities that appear. Are abnormalities like palmation, split brows, etc a more powerful genetic trait that gets passed down more often than tine length, main beam length, mass etc. Kind of like humans with brown eyes.
Yours are brown for a different reason.
You bring up good points though. I don't know if there is enough $ is the high fence stuff to get a full understanding of all the alleles and their impact on antler growth.
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I probably didn't do a good job of explaining that. I was referring to brown being dominant over colors like blue, green, etc. As such, are undesirable traits like palmations and split brows that persist in an area a dominant mutation? I think the studies show that genetics don't play a large role in creating purity and thus increases desirable traits, but can culling play a role in eliminating undesirable characteristics that may be dominant.
Shit. Someone get me a big ass Texas ranch, helicopter, and a 10-year grant! I got this.
It is hard to imagine with all we know about deer and genetics today that deer hunters still believe in culling bucks. Deer hunters, as a group, are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. I did not go on to read the specifics of the three studies, so perhaps this was addressed, but it seems to me that the mothers' genetic contribution to the antler growth potential of her male offspring must be important to the equation.Strike 3 for the Myth of the Genetic “Cull Buck”
The facts have been thoroughly checked: We can’t manage genetics of wild deer and produce measurable change. A new study help bury an old myth about cull bucks.
Local genetics can be quite unique. A property I have hunted for the last 15 years (which I lost this year) had a "defective" antler gene in the area. The owners showed me the skulls of a dozen deer they had killed over the last 15-20 years that all had a perfectly normal left antler, but the right was just a big fork. Most of these deer were 2 1/2, some 3 1/2 year old when killed, but the defect was just plain amazing in how exactly alike they all were. I was instructed to shoot any of them that I saw and not worry about the tagging as they just wanted them killed thinking they could eliminate the defective genetics. They killed a couple more during the time I hunted there, the neighbors killed a couple, and I had a few chances over those years to shoot one fork/one normal antler bucks, but never did it. I tried to tell them that maybe that trait was passed along by the mother. The didn't get it.
Kinda shoots my theory in the ass...about how crazy antler hunters aim to shoot the best buck out of the herd in their prime...before they get a chance to even breed. Because that's what I have believed for years. Hunters have taken the opposite end of the spectrum and killed all the good genes put of their areas. That is why you hear the complaints "this place used to hold good bucks. I could count on killing a shooter every year"
So this could get into the weeds REALLY quick but I'll try to be succinct (yeah right).I probably didn't do a good job of explaining that. I was referring to brown being dominant over colors like blue, green, etc. As such, are undesirable traits like palmations and split brows that persist in an area a dominant mutation? I think the studies show that genetics don't play a large role in creating purity and thus increases desirable traits, but can culling play a role in eliminating undesirable characteristics that may be dominant.
Shit. Someone get me a big ass Texas ranch, helicopter, and a 10-year grant! I got this.
Some traits are single genes, with a dominant or submissive trait. Eye color is a good example of this. In peas wrinkled vs smooth is an example (see Mendels experiments on peas for more info).
In humans there are very few single gene traits. Most we know of are for bad things and are often sex linked such as hemophilia and cystic fibrousis. More often there are multiple genes or alleles that can give "blended" results because of the dozens of possible combinations. The simplest example of that is blood type with A, AB,O or B possible with a whole different gene for positive and negative.
My guess (and assumption) is that antler growth, size and shape are defined by a whole group of genes that are definitely passed on from both the mother and father (@giles) just like we get genes from both parents.
Then you put into play the variable of nutrition and stress levels.....
Yeah no wonder the farm raised deer can grown ginormous unreal antlers and I'm sitting over here just hoping for a mature 8pt+ to wander past.
at1010
*Supporting Member*
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For any and all you want to know about deer genetic potential and the possibility of impacting epigentic triggers that’ll in turn impact genetic potential read-
“Strategic Harvest Systems” by MSU Deer Lab Dr. Bronson Strickland and Steve Demaris.
“Strategic Harvest Systems” by MSU Deer Lab Dr. Bronson Strickland and Steve Demaris.
I spent the first two weeks of November camping at rocky fork state park. It was the first year I have stayed at a campground during deer season. There was a lot of hunters there and the majority were non resident. I was shocked really by the number of them. All that I talked with have been coming to Ohio for years and all said the same thing that they were seeing very few deer. I told all of them that the deer numbers are up north! They should be hunting up there. 
Tell em they’re all in stark county!!!!I spent the first two weeks of November camping at rocky fork state park. It was the first year I have stayed at a campground during deer season. There was a lot of hunters there and the majority were non resident. I was shocked really by the number of them. All that I talked with have been coming to Ohio for years and all said the same thing that they were seeing very few deer. I told all of them that the deer numbers are up north! They should be hunting up there.
I had been like most and knew that there had been a significant decrease in numbers as the DNR implemented their past policies. Recently, I have seen an increase in sightings / buck inventory per cameras overall the past several years This has all occurred within a heavily hunted area.
Anyone ever considers the effect of the proliferation of bush honeysuckle across the state? Where I’m located it has turned just about every woodlot into the thickest, nastiest shit imaginable.
Anyone ever considers the effect of the proliferation of bush honeysuckle across the state? Where I’m located it has turned just about every woodlot into the thickest, nastiest shit imaginable.
Yes, you are correct on that last statement. I wish more deer hunters would start paying attention to it. Many hunters still think the Bush Honeysuckle is a good thing!
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Any hunter that's ever walked in it should be able to tell that it's a biodiversity wasteland for deer.
at1010
*Supporting Member*
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Amen! Bush Honeysuckle, AO, tree of heaven, mfr - there are so many horrible invasives. I’m passed 17 acres of nrcs contract so far and plan to continue to hammer this shit.
and yes sometimes deer eat or bed under an invasive - don’t mean it’s worth a shit!
part of Hunter Ed ought to be on conservation and habitat. IMO.
and yes sometimes deer eat or bed under an invasive - don’t mean it’s worth a shit!
part of Hunter Ed ought to be on conservation and habitat. IMO.