I take it you have no problem with seeing deer? Your hunting area has not seen a decrease in population?
If I remember correctly you hunt in champaign and surrounding counties. If it is as tough to get on ground to deer hunt as it is to waterfowl hunt up there I know why the deer pop is doing well
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We have plenty of deer. Its just a matter of perspective. My perspective was altered for ten or fifteen years because I got used to seeing deer. Apparently that is a bad thing. Thankfully, through liberal bag limits, and no good way to factor in fawn mortality, the DOW has again altered my perspective. I killed my buck on November 8th. I had seen a grand total of 7 deer from the stands in the month and a half of season previous. I killed one of them, a doe on a property where the landowner is convinced there are too many. That doe, and the buck I shot, are the only two deer I have had in range. BtW, I hunt 4-6 days a week, usually just mornings until 11 or so. I should say before someone points out that I may be over-hunting and burning out stands...no I am not. I have plenty of stands and keep em fresh! I feel safe in saying there aren't near as many deer in my area... Who cares if they add more gun days? Really, most folks in my neck of the woods aren't gonna see anything to shoot at anyway.
I take it you have no problem with seeing deer? Your hunting area has not seen a decrease in population?
If I remember correctly you hunt in champaign and surrounding counties. If it is as tough to get on ground to deer hunt as it is to waterfowl hunt up there I know why the deer pop is doing well
No,no, yes and yes...lol
Sadly, I don't think he is and it kinda chaps my ass. I'm not sure where to start honestly. Probably best I head to bed and sleep on it...
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When I was a kid, everyone went to SE Ohio to hunt. There were hardly any deer in the counties west of RT 23. Maybe that is the goal again of the DOW...hehe Why would anyone want to be able to see good numbers of deer right out their back door if they don't live in the SE part of the state?
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Honestly, Milo, I think the booming coyote population has more to do with the decline than two legged hunters. Unfortunately, given the number of hunters, liberal bag limits, and the fact that a good number of "dead deer" arent recovered due to the fact that so many have gotten into archery hunting (and many are doing a poor job of it), then add in yotes that hunt without limits and are very effective...well, its just tough to be a deer these days.
I live in the NW part of the state that has the FEWEST deer in the entire state of Ohio year in and year out. I don't think I'm trolling. What prevents you from looking elsewhere if you aren't happy about seeing less deer on some of the farms you hunt? The main farm I hunt for bucks on had a lot of does on it 3-4 years ago. Now in the last 2 years it's a big deal if I see more than 1 doe or yearling on a given hunt. I am not going to sit here and deny there are less deer, but I am taking it for what it is and hunting and enjoying it along the way. I hunted hard during the first week of November here and got skunked 6 out of 8 hunts...... Then I went elsewhere and saw plenty of deer. Not trying to piss in anybody's beer here, just saying you have to keep on trying and continuing to hunt different places even if they are only a mile down the road.
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Milo
Tatonka guide.
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there is appears to be a general consensus that the deer do the same thing or stay in the same area every year. this is just not true. they move and setup shop on different properties throughout the the year and years as habitat and pressure changes. for instance i went on for years killing deer at my house by by the boat loads..filled multiple tags every year for like 5...i backed off 3na years ago and now in year 3, i am seeing less deer than i have ever seen. i have taken 2 deer in the last 3 years off my place...lots of factors effecting their movement
I agree with that being a factor. But, I have hunted most of Morrow County. The only area that had similar numbers to a few years ago is on the Knox line. But it does seem like an awful lot of good habitat going to waste.
To boil it down to what I am seeing...
I literally have over 6K acres of property available to me. Have I hunted all of it? No. Could I ignore other parts of my life to see more deer? Yes.
But I sat down and figured it up. I have hunted 9 different properties that total right at 2000 acres admittedly looking for bucks. I have seen or have pics of 21 different bucks (may have been more but some look similar) and a total, total of 4 does. I know that no does were taken on three of the properties in the last 4 years (legally anyway).
I have one property that is my "doe" spot that I cannot hunt until late season. I am sure I will get a chance or two at does later.
Do I believe the sky has fallen yet? No. I see it starting to sag though.
Time, effort, cost > enjoyment, sightings
I want the equation to flip. If that makes me a whiner then so be it. It gets much worse and I will take that time, effort and $ to do something else. Maybe a few other whiners will to. Too early to tell.
Milo
Tatonka guide.
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i can understand that for sure. but having too many deer is a real problem for the state of ohio. the state only sees us as a part of the equation...as they should. i'm hunting no matter what the herd size because it is what i do.. i still remember when my dad and uncle told me about the day they saw their first deer ever..
Damn, just when I figured they would be backing off on our early season "anterless" permits due a decreasing doe population (in my area and IMO), they consider adding an early season muzzeloader hunt... sweet!
Thank you! This is precisely my opinion on this issue. IMO, guys that don't like what is going on are the ones that got "used to" seeing a bunch of deer while growing up. It's all relative, fellas... Grow up deer hunting in NW Ohio and then try to tell me you're not seeing enough deer. Over the past decade, the deer population has consistently been on the rise... resulting in your prolific deer sightings in SE Ohio. The goal of the DOW has always been to stop this population increase and reduce the herd... I think finally, this is starting to happen. It was inevitable, guys. Whether you want to believe it or not, IMHO the DOW is doing what is best for EVERYONE in the state of Ohio... not just deer hunters.
Lundy
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I guess it all a matter of perspective.
When I first was permitted to deer hunt with my father and brother was in 1968. We hunted in Hocking county not far of off Rt 188, It was news if you saw a deer during an entire days sit. If you saw ANY deer 2-3 days out of 6 (no Sunday Hunting back then) it was a great week. Does were not legal. I shot my first deer, a buck, in 1971. It took me 4 years to see a legal buck that was in range.
If you saw a rub or a scrape you were extremely excited. There were not well defined deer trails, there weren't enough deer to make them. Just deer tracks alone were enough to discuss at days end.
I always want to see deer when I go deer hunting, and it is tough not to now days, but I don't get too upset if I'm not seeing high numbers or numerous big bucks. There are still a lot of deer in this state, especially compared to where we came from.
I do tend to chuckle a little when I see the threads about no deer, or the bucks aren't moving, or where are the big bucks, the rut isn't going in my area, etc, etc, etc. Just seems a little spoiled to me, like some expect a big buck to hit the scrape you are watching every 30 minutes, all day, every day.
When I first was permitted to deer hunt with my father and brother was in 1968. We hunted in Hocking county not far of off Rt 188, It was news if you saw a deer during an entire days sit. If you saw ANY deer 2-3 days out of 6 (no Sunday Hunting back then) it was a great week. Does were not legal. I shot my first deer, a buck, in 1971. It took me 4 years to see a legal buck that was in range.
If you saw a rub or a scrape you were extremely excited. There were not well defined deer trails, there weren't enough deer to make them. Just deer tracks alone were enough to discuss at days end.
I always want to see deer when I go deer hunting, and it is tough not to now days, but I don't get too upset if I'm not seeing high numbers or numerous big bucks. There are still a lot of deer in this state, especially compared to where we came from.
I do tend to chuckle a little when I see the threads about no deer, or the bucks aren't moving, or where are the big bucks, the rut isn't going in my area, etc, etc, etc. Just seems a little spoiled to me, like some expect a big buck to hit the scrape you are watching every 30 minutes, all day, every day.
So you are saying I should just suck it up and ignore the fact the deer herd on and surrounding my future inheritance is being pounded to the point of nothing?!? That I should just accept the fact that numbers have declined drastically since we bought it and it is not from over harvest on my part?You mentioned making improvements last night. Since the first corn purchase on June 3rd this year, I have spent over $1K on corn. My total bill on food plots this year was just over $475 and took up 30+ hours of my time. I'm doing what I can to make our property more attractive and it should result in increased sightings. But when there are less deer, it doesn't translate.
I understand changes in the local habitat, pressure, and certainly the weather can impact my sightings. What I want you all to understand is that I have been running 5 or more cameras for 5 years now and the camera data is really what has me up in arms right now. I need to go back and search through some old pictures, but I can easily document a decline in overall deer numbers since 2009 on our place and we have only killed 3 deer in that time.
I jumped all around the county this year hunting 4 different properties and have been road scouting a good bit this month. In addition to this, I talk to as many bowhunters as I can to see what their feedback is regarding deer movement. Two things you are most likely to hear from bowhunters in Washington County are: "I think the coyotes are killing a good bit of fawns..." and "You just don't see deer (in the fields) like you used to..." Some people will include the "in the fields" portion, while others will just say they are seeing less deer. I've talked to 30+ bowhunters this year and I'd say at least 25 of them have more negative things to say than positive about the season and the status quo down here. If I'm listening to Chad, we should all just pack up and abandon Washington County (our own home turf) and go somewhere to clog up the works...
I'm not that guy. I have the data through logs and pictures from 2005 to current to back up what I am saying. I've never seen a big buck hit a scrape in the day light from a stand, so I'm the last guy to expect that and rarely hunt over a single scrape. Perhaps I was/am spoiled considering I didn't start seriously hunting until 2004 when numbers we unreal where I was hunting. It was nothing to drive a 300 yard long, 100 yard wide draw behind my parents in late season and push out 25 deer. I bet I couldn't push 5 out of there now. Since I was 13, I have roamed those woods and I can tell you things have changed big time since then, and particularly since we went to 6 tags...
I don't need to see deer every hunt to be happy, although it does help. I don't need to see a big buck more than a couple times a year to be happy. And I'm not so much bitching about this from a personal standpoint, but looking forward to the future when I have kids. When we mirror the PA of the early 2000's here in 5-6 years, I'll be sure to revive this thread...
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You are correct.. We are only part of the equation... But we're the part that pays the bills.... What portion of the ODNR budget is funds gained from insurance companies?? What part of their budget is funds gained from Joe Farmer? While I agree they need to "balance the herd" they also need to realize who pays the fuggin bills. The answer for the first two questions is nada.. Farmers get crop damage or landowner their tags resulting ZERO funding to the DNR. Insurance companies pay NOTHING into the DNR coffers.. (except the people on the lobbyist take)... I say let them eat steak. It is true that the DNR needs to "balance" the herd.. But what they have now is anything but balanced.. How can it be "balanced" if you've decimated the rural population while ignoring the booming urban population.....
Why isn't the DNR out lobbying their ass off to these cities to allow more hunting... Why isn't the DNR playing hardball with these cities over opening more areas to hunting? Why aren't the playing budgetary games with these parks trying to force the issue? What are they doing to reduce urban numbers besides hiring snipers and net and bolt teams from out of state........
The answer to this is quite simple... It's called mitigated risk... The same practices insurance companies use... They don't care if the urban population is out of control.. Accidents that happen in these ares are usually low speed impacts resulting in very little damage. Maybe on average about 3,000 dollars worth. After a $500 deductible and negotiated rates with body shops the insurance company may be out $1,000-1,500 bucks...... chump change.. Where as in a rural area the impact speeds are much higher and results in greater property damage.. But also has a higher risk of bodily harm.. This is where shit gets expensive for insurance companies... Hospital bills.. Be it from striking the deer then a tree.. Or swerving to miss the deer and having a bad accident... This is where the real money comes in..... SO.. To answer the question about why the DNR doesn't give a damn about booming urban populations, but are decimating the rural ones.. It's plain as day.. Insurers would rather 20 people hit a deer in the city at 25-30 mph.. VS hitting a solitary one at 55-65 mph in the country.. The DNR is doing nothing more than following an insurance companies mitigated risk plan while shitting down your neck about "balance"...
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Yes. Where I grew up hunting in Sandusky County, in the mid-90's, we could push thickets like this all day and not jump a single deer. If you sat in a tree, which we mostly did, you could go an entire week or more without seeing a single deer. Now when I go to SO I get spoiled... even during what we consider "bad years" as far as deer sightings go, it's still more sightings than we would've seen back home. Hell, this year my buddy Mike arrived at camp and said he had yet to see a single fuggin deer from stand on his property in Sandusky County, after 8 sits. It's all relative, brother.