Trail Cams.... IR vs. Blackout

[Rutin]

Whats everyone think when it comes to deer seeing IR glow vs. total blackouts? Does it affect certain bucks and do they dodge cameras they know glow?

I truely believe every deer is different when it comes to cameras, every deer has a different temperment and mindset when they see the red glow. Ive had bucks that just pose all day everyday for the camera, and others that get hit once or twice with it and freak the fugg out! Ive watched bucks skirts a tree or area they know the camera is in just bc they know its there. Anyone else seen this happen?

Also has anyone tried or attempted to modify their cams? I was thinking about buy a small section of window tint to put over my Bushnells to see if it would black them out, I know this will kill my flash range tho... gonna do a little trial and error first.

 

[hickslawns]

I have had a difficult time getting repeat pictures of mature bucks around cameras. Rotating the camera 90 or 180 degrees verifies they are still in the area, just skirting the camera. The other option I have used is switching to video mode. Seems to pick them up as they are skirting the cameras.

Here is a question I am curious about: Do you think the bucks which have "grown up" around cameras will still avoid them when they are mature? I have only been running them for 3yrs. Seems the 1.5-2.5yr old bucks which were introduced to cameras young will not be as leery of them the next year. I haven't had them in the field long enough to have an opinion on this. I am curious to see if I begin to get more mature buck pictures over the next few years. Time will tell.

 

[Rutin]

Good question... I would honestly think it depends on the buck. As they mature it always seems like they become more elusive and move less from 4.6-6.5. It seems like I get regulars on camera all the way up to 3.5 and then ill get a few pics of them and "thier gone" (skirting the camera). I had a deer last year I named Titan that every year would be on my creek bottom and would present himself 1 or 2 times in from of my camera in early June and then POOF.... gone! Well I finally gained access to a new piece of land 1/2 mile away and low and behind he lived there all summer..... BUT was still afraid of the dang camera! I think I kinda hurt myself on that deer bc he is skiddish with the camera.

Mid June... creek bottom.... skiddish

1/2 mile away in the beans..... skiddish

 

[hickslawns]

In regards to your question, I have not used a Black out camera yet. I have not attempted any modifications yet either. I might start hanging them from trees pointing downward more this year. We have a half dozen 22' ladder stands and a couple buddy stands which I could easily climb in/out of to point them downward. I have used this technique before during gun season to catch trespassers and find the mature deer again which had been avoiding the cameras. Hadn't seen one deer for a couple months. Hang a camera high and find out he is not following the edge anymore. Simply walking about 30yds out in the field instead of along the wood line.

 

[Jackalope]

You can't change a red flash to a black flash. Different wavelength LEDs. But the tinted film would reduce the brightness. Like Rutin mentioned though it will cost you range though..

I think deer care more about scent and human presence than they do a slight red glow.

 

[Schu72]

The pics I posted a while back on my "cleaning out the cams" were pics from a bushnell balck out. I think it still has a single red led that goes off when the camera is triggered. It's not in the flash housing...not exactly sure what it is.

 

[Jackalope]

The pics I posted a while back on my "cleaning out the cams" were pics from a bushnell balck out. I think it still has a single red led that goes off when the camera is triggered. It's not in the flash housing...not exactly sure what it is.

Probably just an indicator. Black electrical tape over it.

 

[jagermeister]

I think they definitely notice the "red glow," but I don't have enough experience with them to know whether there are negative effects on the deer or not. I do know that if you're running a cam on Picture Mode only, you will very seldom notice any type of reaction from the deer. Last season I ran a ton of Video Mode on my Spypoint, and I noticed a bunch of deer picking off the camera, and quite often they spooked afterwards.

It's funny this subject has come up because I've been researching my ass off the past week or so trying to figure out how to do a DIY "black flash" upgrade. There are a few types of filters that will block visible light and allow IR light to pass, like unexposed developed 35mm film strips or the black plastic "disk" inside of an old 3.5 floppy disk. I plan on trying a couple things next week when I check/pull cams for the first time. If that doesn't give me good enough results, I may just make my own IR array with some 940nm IR LEDs. My Bushnell TC is now past it's warranty period, so I'm not too worried about Frankensteining it.

 

[Jackalope]

I think they definitely notice the "red glow," but I don't have enough experience with them to know whether there are negative effects on the deer or not. I do know that if you're running a cam on Picture Mode only, you will very seldom notice any type of reaction from the deer. Last season I ran a ton of Video Mode on my Spypoint, and I noticed a bunch of deer picking off the camera, and quite often they spooked afterwards.

It's funny this subject has come up because I've been researching my ass off the past week or so trying to figure out how to do a DIY "black flash" upgrade. There are a few types of filters that will block visible light and allow IR light to pass, like unexposed developed 35mm film strips or the black plastic "disk" inside of an old 3.5 floppy disk. I plan on trying a couple things next week when I check/pull cams for the first time. If that doesn't give me good enough results, I may just make my own IR array with some 940nm IR LEDs. My Bushnell TC is now past it's warranty period, so I'm not too worried about Frankensteining it.

One thing you need to remember though, if it was as simple as adding a piece of plastic or changing a part, every cam manufacturer in the world would be making BF cams or offering conversion kits. Just don;t want to see you fall for a gimmick. Building your own array would be the way to do it, but you'll likely have to change the IR filter over the lens also. And maybe some software.

 

[jagermeister]

One thing you need to remember though, if it was as simple as adding a piece of plastic or changing a part, every cam manufacturer in the world would be making BF cams or offering conversion kits. Just don;t want to see you fall for a gimmick. Building your own array would be the way to do it, but you'll likely have to change the IR filter over the lens also. And maybe some software.

That's pretty much what I figured. And the fact that extensive online digging reveals virtually nothing about "how they do it" tells me that it's not easy. I have old floppy disks and old film strips laying around, so it'd be dumb not to at least try it. I've also read of guys using fifty (yes, 50) layers of 5% car window tint over the IR arrays... It doesn't remove the glow completely, but it reduces glow significantly. Fugg that, though... I'm not obsessed enough to dick around cutting 50 tiny layers of window tint. I gotta see how easy/hard it is to disassemble my BTC and see how the IR array is connected. If it's easy to take apart and disconnects via a simple harness, the 940nm array would be an easy DIY project. Whether it would work or not, I don't know until I try. I do know some of the homebrew cam guys are having success with the 940nm LEDs. We shall see...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250562516868?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[Fluteman]

If you are worried about the glow bothering them, place the camera a bit higher up the tree and angle it down. They won't see the glow unless they are looking directly at it.

 

[jagermeister]

If you are worried about the glow bothering them, place the camera a bit higher up the tree and angle it down. They won't see the glow unless they are looking directly at it.

Good idea. I would think the camera's sensoring range would be reduced if you set it up like that, though.

 

[Jackalope]

Not really reduced range. But reduced effectiveness with most cams. See most cam sensors broadcast out a horizontal fan shaped range. Think of it like a flat cone that gets wider the further from the cam you go. This is why it's important to make sure a cams right to left level when you hang it. Else one side of the fan will be high and the other too low. Thereby reducing sensor effectiveness. That's why it should be about crotch high and level.

Spypoint on the other hand uses a 5 zone detection sonit can be hung higher and at an angle. These cams are also designed for security applications.

That's why Spypoint took the 2nd and 3rd place spots in the detection zone shootout test at trailcampro. Only beat by reconyx.

http://www.trailcampro.com/2011falltrailcamerashootout.aspx

 

[hickslawns]

Not really reduced range. But reduced effectiveness with most cams. See most cam sensors broadcast out a horizontal fan shaped range. Think of it like a flat cone that gets wider the further from the cam you go. This is why it's important to make sure a cams right to left level when you hang it. Else one side of the fan will be high and the other too low. Thereby reducing sensor effectiveness. That's why it should be about crotch high and level.

Spypoint on the other hand uses a 5 zone detection sonit can be hung higher and at an angle. These cams are also designed for security applications.

That's why Spypoint took the 2nd and 3rd place spots in the detection zone shootout test at trailcampro. Only beat by reconyx.

http://www.trailcampro.com/2011falltrailcamerashootout.aspx

Dang impressive too when you consider the difference in price. Those Reconyx are nice, but I couldn't see dropping that kind of coin unless I was going BEC route.

 

[jagermeister]

Dang impressive too when you consider the difference in price. Those Reconyx are nice, but I couldn't see dropping that kind of coin unless I was going BEC route.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Rutin]

JBrown.... Here is my BTC in video mode and watch how bright the pic mode is on the other BTC sitting 5 feet away. All my BTC's are standard IR.




Here is a prime example of hanging it in a tree how it cuts flash range down....

 

[jagermeister]

JBrown.... Here is my BTC in video mode and watch how bright the pic mode is on the other BTC sitting 5 feet away. All my BTC's are standard IR.

Wow that's pretty wild! Hell of a buck TOO!

 

[bowhunter1023]

Considering I have thousands of pictures of the mature bucks that have stepped in front of my camera over the past few years, I'm of the opinion that they notice the glow of the IR panel, but I've never seen it become a deterrent. I have hundreds of pictures of mature bucks staring at the camera, followed by hundreds more of them going right back to what they were doing. That's why I think it is so important to have cams in the woods nearly 12 months of the year, particular over bait. IMO if the IR flash was going to cause you troubles, it will be when you drop a cam off for the first time in October. Not only does the intrusion (which I feel is the biggest issue as Joe stated) when hanging cams alert them more times than not, the strange new red glow is bound to make them more on edge. However if that deer was dining over corn or slamming minerals all summer while staring at the occasional red glow, then it stands to reason he'll tolerate it much better than he would have otherwise...

 

[bowhunter1023]

I actually like the fact that they see the glow because most of my best pictures, come from burst mode shots where they have seen the glow, stare at the cam, then the follow up pic snaps the best shot. Of the following examples of that, none of these deer ever seemed to become camera shy...

 

[Rutin]

Jesse.... that buck up top with the split brows HATES the red glow.... even this time of year! He will not stand for it at all when the velvet comes off and always dodges the camera by walking 50 or so yards around it to avoid the glow. I know what you mean about having deer stand and pose all day for it, I had a 7.5 year old that did it his whole life but Titan is an exception that wants NOTHING to do with it. Even in daylight pics like the one above, look how cautious he is about that camera.