Lot of big assumptions in there. I'm a "slob driver" when it comes to gun season and I can tell you this, we've killed twice the number of deer in the past decade sitting in the morning and evenings than we have while driving. In my recent memory, we have killed 6 deer on drives and wounded one in the past 5 years. There are at least another 10 deer that have been killed while sitting the morning and evening. And as far as baiting during bow season goes, you're talking out of your ass. You don't even have the slightest clue what that number would actually be and I am willing to bet it is not a high as you think it is. Keep the high and mighty BS to a minimum please...
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I agree with Jesse drives are not that effective. Couple examples. When I was on the mead lease in Vinton county. 4 guys bowhunting for 6 days would kill more deer than 20-30 guys doing deer drives all of gun. Some of us started refusing to drive until Wednesday and would still hunt the first two days. We would kill more deer in 2 days than they would driving the rest of the week.
For us, driving is more about tradition and the camaraderie of putting one together, executing it, and seeing/hearing the results at the end of it. I know groups that drive daylight to dark the entire week and I would tend to agree that some of them fit in that "slob driver" category. The ones that do, are the ones who see deer as a nuisance or cheap, easy meal. But not all people are that way and not all drivers are slobs. More so, driving is not a guaranteed kill as I have seen them fail far more times than I have seen them work...
There are more reports here of guys seeing less hunters than normal than guys seeing a bunch... So I wouldn't exactly say we're nuts. The eyes don't lie. There are a few observations here and there of people seeing lots of hunters... But not the majority. IMO there's no question that hunter effort during gun season has changed significantly over the past few years.
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There are a couple of guys from MI that have been coming here to hunt for close to 20 years. I used to see them at the check station every year. They killed a bunch of really nice deer over the years. The check station closedd a couple of years ago. The guys come in to the pizza shop now to swap stories and eat. Two days into gun season, and they asked last night "Where did all the deer go? Where did all the hunters go?" They haven't shot a deer here the two previous seasons, and have only seen a couple so far this year. They are looking at different areas to hunt now. I told 'em to check out the Athens area 
Knowing that Shawn has been coming here the longest, I asked him if he thought we had as many deer as we did years ago. He said "H... No!" I think locally at least, we don't have the hunters we once did because we don't have the deer we once did. Then again, when I see guys from seemingly all over the state saying hunter numbers are down, I'm led to think otherwise. I guess we will see this weekend. If there are a lot of hunters out, I think we can assume folks just don't take off Monday since they get four weekend days a year to hunt with a shotgun.
Knowing that Shawn has been coming here the longest, I asked him if he thought we had as many deer as we did years ago. He said "H... No!" I think locally at least, we don't have the hunters we once did because we don't have the deer we once did. Then again, when I see guys from seemingly all over the state saying hunter numbers are down, I'm led to think otherwise. I guess we will see this weekend. If there are a lot of hunters out, I think we can assume folks just don't take off Monday since they get four weekend days a year to hunt with a shotgun.
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Or hunters have migrated to areas with higher deer densities. I used to hunt vinton county a ton. I hunted there once last year, none this year, and have no plans of hunting it in the future. I started hunting where there were more deer. As areas that have a decreased population begin to grow the hunters will seek out areas with a higher population. It's only natural to hunt the better property. We all do it. As those decreased population areas become larger due to over hunting the mobile hunters will get condensed into a smaller geographic area until that area too is reduced. This is why you see more and more people every year saying their population is down. It's spreading. Some of these people 3-4 years ago laughed and said they had plenty of deer. Hunters today are no different than the Indians. When a population slips they move. If you notice also the majority of people saying they aren't seeing many hunters also aren't seeing many deer. That's because they went to hunt their friends uncles brothers place instead.
There are a couple of guys from MI that have been coming here to hunt for close to 20 years. I used to see them at the check station every year. They killed a bunch of really nice deer over the years. The check station closedd a couple of years ago. The guys come in to the pizza shop now to swap stories and eat. Two days into gun season, and they asked last night "Where did all the deer go? Where did all the hunters go?" They haven't shot a deer here the two previous seasons, and have only seen a couple so far this year. They are looking at different areas to hunt now. I told 'em to check out the Athens area
While I think deer numbers are down in certain areas, it's also plausible that guys are seeing less deer because of the lack of hunters. Less people in the woods means less pressure... and less pressure means less deer getting pushed around. As soon as guns start going off, deer start sitting tight until someone/something bumps them. It's a double-edged sword, really. A decreased deer population doesn't attract as many hunters as it once did... and the guys that actually do go out and hunt are the ones that suffer by seeing fewer deer... leading to fewer and fewer hunters in the future. The downward spiral.
See my response to Brock, above. You won't see the deer if no one is keeping them moving...
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So how did we see them in fields 3-4 years ago spring, summer, fall, and winter, but now you can drive for miles and only see 10% of that? Can't blame that on lack of hunters. From my observations the less pressured deer feel, the more they move about freely and expose themselves in fields. Least that's what I've seen on properties that have little to no pressure. I've never had problems with deer movement on properties where the only pressure was me. And the most deer I see from the road are on properties that don't allow hunting. So the less hunters to get them moving so they're hiding theory doesn't make sense to me. From my observations most deer don't go in to hiding until they're heavily pressured. By heavy I mean deer drives. Deer don't understand the concept of distant gunshots. I shot at one twice yesterday and the thing just stood there.. Actually they both just stood there while Alex and I both shot twice. that's 4 rounds before they bounded off. BTW. Those federal shells don't like CRP at 110 yards, not even a little bit.
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Valid point, Jim. But, as Joe stated, just not seeing deer is the real problem. Shawn hunted east of Greenfield on the Ross Co side of the lake (Paint Creek). There is a little gravel road over there that runs through bottom lands that are all ag with wooded ridges above. Those bottoms used to be full of deer every evening. He recalled how Slim (and yeah, he weighs well over 400) showed him the area his first year down here. They arrive the Friday after Thanksgiving every year and the first thing they have always done was run those back roads and look at deer on Friday evening. He said that on their first trip through there years ago they saw 6 over 140", and it was that way for years. Declining the last several of course. This year on Friday and Saturday evening before season, they didn't see a buck, and very few doe! You can't see them when they aren't there.
Personally, I had the best season I've had in years. I am very fortunate to have the properties I do to hunt, and even more so now that I'm the only one hunting it! I look forward to the next couple of seasons as I am sure they will be even better than this one...but with the return of deer, I also know I will have to deal with more hunters in the future, and poachers tend to show up once a few "monsters" are seen from the road.
Personally, I had the best season I've had in years. I am very fortunate to have the properties I do to hunt, and even more so now that I'm the only one hunting it! I look forward to the next couple of seasons as I am sure they will be even better than this one...but with the return of deer, I also know I will have to deal with more hunters in the future, and poachers tend to show up once a few "monsters" are seen from the road.
Listen guys, I'm not saying decreased hunting pressure is entire problem. I simply said that I think there are less gun hunters in the woods, and it's not helping matters when it comes to seeing deer during gun season. It's simply an observation, and I'm theorizing that it's simply part of the "problem."
When I was a kid just starting to deer hunt in Sandusky County, we'd set up in stands for the mornings, but then around 10 or 11 a.m. we'd drive around the county in the truck just to see what was going on. We'd see orange everywhere we went. Out there, like the rest of NW Ohio, the woodlots are small and the fields are large, so when guys are out hunting you definitely see them. As a result of seeing all of the hunters out and about, we'd also routinely see groups of deer running across open fields from woodlot to woodlot. At midday during gun season, those deer are only moving because somebody pushed them. If the hunters weren't there, do you think we'd still see the same numbers of deer running around??? No.
When I was a kid just starting to deer hunt in Sandusky County, we'd set up in stands for the mornings, but then around 10 or 11 a.m. we'd drive around the county in the truck just to see what was going on. We'd see orange everywhere we went. Out there, like the rest of NW Ohio, the woodlots are small and the fields are large, so when guys are out hunting you definitely see them. As a result of seeing all of the hunters out and about, we'd also routinely see groups of deer running across open fields from woodlot to woodlot. At midday during gun season, those deer are only moving because somebody pushed them. If the hunters weren't there, do you think we'd still see the same numbers of deer running around??? No.
I agree with Jim to some degree. There is no doubt we have less deer down here and during gun season, you need bodies in the woods to move them around. That is of the utmost importance now that the deer herd has declined in numbers. Where I hunted Monday is a perfect example. We used to see truck loads of deer, now we are hard pressed to see a half dozen. Even when we attempt to move them around, there are very few to be seen. And like Joe stated, with less deer will come less hunters and at the end of the day, that means less sightings and less kills during the pressured parts of the season...
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I will agree with you all. As I see things, we all agree things are just different than they once were. With that said, different circumstances require different tactics. One of the best deer hunters I knew as a kid didn't wear a lot of heavy clothes even on the coldest of days. He "walked" as he called it, but more accurately, he still hunted. That man killed some of the biggest bucks, and with far more regularity than anyone else I knew. It is the reason I learned to still hunt myself. It's doable with a bow, but with a gun I think it about the most effective way to kill deer. Everyone these days seem to use one of two tactics. 1. Sit and wait for others to bump a deer their way. (If everyone is sitting, who is gonna bump 'em?) 2. Drives, and I don't see nearly as much of that as I used to. Just a suggestion fellas, grab your gun and ease along through likely areas. If you are even a little bit sneaky, most deer will stop to look your way. If it's one you want, kill it. I love guns! In fact, I may just buy myself another tag and go walk through my neighbor's place right now.
I will agree with you all. As I see things, we all agree things are just different than they once were. With that said, different circumstances require different tactics. One of the best deer hunters I knew as a kid didn't wear a lot of heavy clothes even on the coldest of days. He "walked" as he called it, but more accurately, he still hunted. That man killed some of the biggest bucks, and with far more regularity than anyone else I knew. It is the reason I learned to still hunt myself. It's doable with a bow, but with a gun I think it about the most effective way to kill deer. Everyone these days seem to use one of two tactics. 1. Sit and wait for others to bump a deer their way. (If everyone is sitting, who is gonna bump 'em?) 2. Drives, and I don't see nearly as much of that as I used to. Just a suggestion fellas, grab your gun and ease along through likely areas. If you are even a little bit sneaky, most deer will stop to look your way. If it's one you want, kill it. I love guns! In fact, I may just buy myself another tag and go walk through my neighbor's place right now.
Stillhunting is a tactic that I've been meaning to try... I'm just unsure whether I have enough patience to pull it off. When you stillhunt, about how often and about how long are you pausing to scan your surroundings? I'm guessing a good set of bino's are a must for stillhunting, right?
Binos are a must yes. I take no more than 3-4 steps when still hunting unless I'm trying to get to a good stopping point. Try to stop in spots were you can look around without making a lot of noise. My still hunt Monday took 2 hours and I covered about 400 yards. I may stand in one spot for 5-10 minutes listening and glassing before moving another 3-4-5 steps.
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For me, Jim, the area I'm in dictates how fast I'm going. You've been at this a while, you know when you are in an area where a deer would lay down for the day. When you get in those little holes, move slow, very slow. Pick apart everything in front of you. You will be amazed at how many deer you will see still in their beds. Just think about how many times you have jumped a deer while walking through the woods that were 20 yards from you when they took off...that deer didn't know you were there until you were. It was killable, especially if you saw it before it saw you. I use 50mm binoculars. I use them because they allow you to look through brush. If I could find larger, I'd probably have 'em. Wet days are certainly the best. Moisture on the ground with a little wind and you have it made. Deer cannont see or hear worth a crap on those days, and even when they see you right on top of them, they don't trust themselves and will often stand and stare for confirmation. BANG.
My buddy Lathe and I were out one opening day. Miserable weather. We did the same thing we did this past Monday afternoon. Slow pushes. Well, Lathe pushes, I sneak through with him strategically positioned. I snuck within 30 yards of a dandy buck that was bedded with a doe. They stood up, bang, he dropped. Lathe was about 150 yards from these deer, likely in clear view, but they stayed put till I shot. They were probably watching him through the open woods to their front while I was creeping up the back door.
A couple of years before that, I shot one at 11 steps in his bed! It was horrible. All I could see was his head and neck. I made a little noise with my mouth, he looked right down the barrel...I'll never do that again. I have the greatest respect for whitetail deer, but they are not super-natural. A little courage to try still hunting, and a little woodsmanship is really all you need. There is no need to sit in a tree bored out of your mind just waiting. This is why I LOVE gun season. Two months of basically waiting on nocturnal animals to get on their feet in daylight gets old, just go where they are laying and wake 'em up a little! ... and then put 'em to sleep.
My buddy Lathe and I were out one opening day. Miserable weather. We did the same thing we did this past Monday afternoon. Slow pushes. Well, Lathe pushes, I sneak through with him strategically positioned.
I snuck within 30 yards of a dandy buck that was bedded with a doe. They stood up, bang, he dropped. Lathe was about 150 yards from these deer, likely in clear view, but they stayed put till I shot. They were probably watching him through the open woods to their front while I was creeping up the back door.A couple of years before that, I shot one at 11 steps in his bed! It was horrible. All I could see was his head and neck. I made a little noise with my mouth, he looked right down the barrel...I'll never do that again. I have the greatest respect for whitetail deer, but they are not super-natural. A little courage to try still hunting, and a little woodsmanship is really all you need. There is no need to sit in a tree bored out of your mind just waiting. This is why I LOVE gun season. Two months of basically waiting on nocturnal animals to get on their feet in daylight gets old, just go where they are laying and wake 'em up a little!
... and then put 'em to sleep.I was in my woods before daylight again. I left at 2:00 and seen no deer on my property or the 2 properties next door.
The only hunting is on the small 16 ac. lot next door. The property behind me allows no hunting. People sneek in at times.
I only heard one shot about 1/2 mile west of me and another maybe 2 miles away.
The wind was WSW so it was correct for my woods and still no deer sightings. Yesterday the wind was NEN and totally wrong for my woods but I seen 6 deer does and fawns before 8:30. I aggree the smoke scent and Ever Calm works.
I only have one tag left and I need a buck for Contest points.
Frank
The only hunting is on the small 16 ac. lot next door. The property behind me allows no hunting. People sneek in at times.
I only heard one shot about 1/2 mile west of me and another maybe 2 miles away.
The wind was WSW so it was correct for my woods and still no deer sightings. Yesterday the wind was NEN and totally wrong for my woods but I seen 6 deer does and fawns before 8:30. I aggree the smoke scent and Ever Calm works.
I only have one tag left and I need a buck for Contest points.
Frank
Thanks for the stillhunting tips, guys. Brock, your post especially... That's really got me fired up to get out there with the gun!
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Also. Cary a small pair of pruners. Lots quieter and less attention needed to remove the errant stickers leaning on a trail than ducking under or moving them.