The TOO dump thread

[Diane]

Just over three hours. Gets it above 180 which kills 99.99% of potential bugs in venison. That is the hillbilly in me. That was done for a LONG time in my family and no ones got sick...even doing chicken (scary).

I DO RECOMMEND A PRESSURE COOKER. It gets the internal temp past 230 which kills ALL potential bugs. It is just safer and the meat tastes better.

Ok, in the meantime, what about all this deer meat I just canned? Should something like re-boiling it right before I use it (I plan to do BBQs and stew with it) be done as a precaution? I really hate the thought of wasting it, but I hate the thought of me or ZJ getting sick, even more.

Suggestions?

 

[Diane]

An old classmate of mine, and my second grade "girlfriend", is losing her battle with cancer. She's been fighting for over a year now with what started as ovarian cancer, but has now spread to her spinal cord and other locations. Her daughter, who is in Klay's 6th grade class, was taken to Pittsburgh today to say her goobyes and life support will be removed today. Just flat out sucks... 39 years old.

That's sad. And so young.

My Mom was really lucky. She was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer in '95 and had to have part of her bowel removed. All these years later and its never came back.

 

[Beentown]

Ok, in the meantime, what about all this deer meat I just canned? Should something like re-boiling it right before I use it (I plan to do BBQs and stew with it) be done as a precaution? I really hate the thought of wasting it, but I hate the thought of me or ZJ getting sick, even more.

Suggestions?

Your call. I would eat it especially if I cooked it as I always open one and check the internal temp to be certain. Time and temperature is the key in food borne illness.

 

[Jackalope]

I agree with Jlope here, 3 hours is just enough processing time in a water bath for green beans, I don't even think my canning book gives an option for meat in a water bath. Don't be afraid of them, I got a new presto 16 this year and although they don't have a gauge, learning how to use them is very easy. They also have a safety grommet in the lid that if the pressure builds up too high it will pop that grommet out and relieve the pressure. Shoot me a message if you have any questions. I think I gave 50-60 bucks for mine, probably find them used on CL or Ebay cheaper.

Man. That scares me too. You shouldn't do green beans in a water bath either. Takes 20 min in a pressure canner. Botulism isn't anything to play with.

 

[Jackalope]

Your call. I would eat it especially if I cooked it as I always open one and check the internal temp to be certain. Time and temperature is the key in food borne illness.

The thing with botulism is you can kill the vegetative cells in boiling water. But it takes temps above 240 to kill the spores. The spores exist everywhere and we eat them everyday. But in low acid environments with no oxygen it begins to grow and make toxins. So you may kill live cells. But the dormant spores will grow in the jar when the oxygen is removed.

 

[DJK Frank 16]

Man. That scares me too. You shouldn't do green beans in a water bath either. Takes 20 min in a pressure canner. Botulism isn't anything to play with.

Agreed. My grandma still does them that way. After reading about it I definitely use my canner whenever possible.

 

[Beentown]

The reason of very few cases of botulism (besides unsealed or dented cans) is because the bacteria dies when boiled, the toxin denatures at 180 and the spores loose viability at 230ish degrees. (This is assuming 3 hours minimum of boil, full rolling boil)

If proper water bath is followed then all the above are met except the 230 degrees. Which means the spores could become viable again with enough air.

Again, there is a risk. Just VERY minor. Most cans with botulism will swell or pop the lid. Never eat anything with a popped seal, ever.

Dang, who thought I would miss being a food safety instructor....lol

 

[Jackalope]

The reason of very few cases of botulism (besides unsealed or dented cans) is because the bacteria dies when boiled, the toxin denatures at 180 and the spores loose viability at 230ish degrees. (This is assuming 3 hours minimum of boil, full rolling boil)

If proper water bath is followed then all the above are met except the 230 degrees. Which means the spores could become viable again with enough air.

Again, there is a risk. Just VERY minor. Most cans with botulism will swell or pop the lid. Never eat anything with a popped seal, ever.

Dang, who thought I would miss being a food safety instructor....lol

You mean become viable again without air. It requires no more than 2% oxygen for the spores to become viable cells and produce toxin. Boiling will kill the active cells and toxin. But if you don't destroy the spores it'll grow in the jar. And I agree about the popped lids. But it can grow enough to kill you far before it even gets to that point. The ingestion dosage is in the parts per million for sickness and possibly death. IMO it's just a good idea to pressure can stuff other than pickles.

 

[Beentown]

Reading some info and just going off the top of my head I will post more later. Seems I am remember some temps differently or the USDA has raised the time/temps again. For examle:

I had 180 and it is 185 now

230 and now 240.

 

[Beentown]

Ha, I still get updates for the CDC. It pays not to clean your "junk" email folder.

Anyway in 2011 the US only had 20 cases of foodborne botulism and 6 were from an Alaska packing plant that let raw salmon eggs get up to 50* four seven hours then canned with no heat treatment at all (doesn't make sense but oh well). 6 more were from prison made "shine"....toilet shine.

As I said...very rare.

 

[Diane]

Well, besides scaring the bejeebers out of me, I guess the question (in my mind) still remains. Could the already canned deer meat be boiled or baked to a certain temperature and then be safe to eat?

I'm not talking future batches, just what is already canned.

 

[Jackalope]

Well, besides scaring the bejeebers out of me, I guess the question (in my mind) still remains. Could the already canned deer meat be boiled or baked to a certain temperature and then be safe to eat?

I'm not talking future batches, just what is already canned.

Here is everything the CDC has on home canning. Should help with an answer.

http://m.cdc.gov/en/MobileCampaigns/Home-Canning

 

[Archertl]

haha some one got botulism from toilet shine. god-damn karma is a bitch.
My checked bag got put on the wrong airplane and should be here at 9pm. Im going to be pissed if my pistol, bourbon, or ski pop got stolen.

 

[Beentown]

haha some one got botulism from toilet shine. god-damn karma is a bitch.
My checked bag got put on the wrong airplane and should be here at 9pm. Im going to be pissed if my pistol, bourbon, or ski pop got stolen.

No doubt.

 

[hickslawns]

Amidst the other frustrations of a Monday I had yesterday, my wife mentioned she has to work this weekend. I was so pumped to hit the woods until those words came out of her mouth. I realize it is only 2 days of a long season. Just not what I needed to hear at the time.

Life is good. There are much worse things to hear. I probably shouldn't post this in the dump thread or at all even. I was just starting to get real giddy though and she burst my bubble. I will live. Carry on.

 

[finelyshedded]

Sorry to hear of your childhood girlfriends eventual passing Mike. Very sad indeed! Cancer is evil and I hate it!

 

[teej89]

two words. Poison. Ivy. or something of the sort. Musta gotten it this weekend, have it on the inside of both of my arms :smiley_blackeye:

I was hanging another stand and ripping vines off the tree but none had leaves on it, I dunno either way it sucks. it itches. and I'm not a happy camper lol

 

[Diane]

My Uncle Gary died today. He was diagnosed with lung cancer a couple of months ago and it was discovered that it had spread to his brain.

The doctors said last Friday that he had 2 to 4 weeks to live, so Hospice was called in. My parents immediately left to see him (TN) and said he recognized them on Wednesday and spoke briefly to them.

Anyway, he died today and it just breaks my heart to see my Dad so tore up about it. They were very close.

 

[Mike]

Sorry Diane.

 

[buckbuster217]

so very sorry to hear this Diane, your family will be in our thoughts and prayers