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ODOW Looking for Feedback on Waterfowl Season Dates

jagermeister

jagermeister

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Ohio
Just took the survey.

A couple things...

I really liked most of the questions, especially the ones about level of waterfowling experience. I think this should help the researchers to attach some sort of "weight" to the answers that are given. Obviously a 15 or 20 year veteran should have a more reliable opinion that the duck dynasty wannabe that just started this year.

I stated that I hunted Sandusky County most frequently this year. I was then asked my opinion of season dates for the Lake Erie Marsh Zone. I did not, however, get asked about my opinion on North Zone season dates. I'm not cool with that. Just because I hunt Sandusky County most frequently doesn't mean I hunt it exclusively.

I also did not like the last question about hen mallard bag limits. I feel that question was biased as hell. How can you put a huge graph in the face of the hunter showing long-term population decline and not sway them to a conservative state of mind? There is no conclusive research to suggest that a 2-hen limit would affect the population, yet that fact is discretely hidden in the text of the question. Many states have a 2-hen limit and are doing just fine. That supposed population decline does not necessarily mean there are less ducks. It simply means they are seeing less ducks during their aerial surveys. There could actually be benefits to a 2-hen limit. I could argue that a 2-hen limit would help get guys out of the marsh quicker and therefore put less overall pressure on the birds. Regardless, I think that was a loaded question and should have been set up differently.
 
Huckleberry Finn

Huckleberry Finn

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They emailed me one...I won't be filling it out unless I can not answer anything comparative. I simply don't know enough to compare.
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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Where can we put that the waterfowl population needs reduced by 70% due to unnecessary property damage and financial burden placed on businesses by nesting geese?

The National Wildlife Research Center estimated that resident goose populations cause on average $28 per bird in property damage. Since 1970 the non migratory goose population has increased 14 fold to 3.5 million and can cause a single county almost three quarters of a million dollars a year in damages to government facilities alone.

I sure hope out DNR takes that into consideration so they don't appear like giant hypocrites. Especially when we look at what they've done to the deer population because as they say a few farmers on a survey said they want a few less. Well. That's what the DNR claims is the reason anyway. I wonder what the goose population would look like if these businesses could claim those damages on their insurance.
 
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C

Carpn

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:horse:

Pretty sure that farmers do claim goose damage and there are nuisance goose permits available. But whatever, beat away .
 
Longdraw

Longdraw

Junior Member
496
102
Central,Ohio
I had a farmer give us permission to hunt his land,,,he got 40 goose permits last year,and since he gave us permission to hunt this year he didn't apply for any,,but we did take about 35 geese of his place,which he said isn't enough
 
bowhunter1023

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
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49,507
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Appalachia
The goose population has exploded in much the same manner as the deer herd did in the 90's. The DNR has facilitated the slaughter of our deer herd thanks to the persistence of special interests, namely Nationwide Insurance. There are studies that show the stunning damage geese cause on an annual basis and the millions of dollars those damages costs insurance companies. However our goose limits are HUGELY conservative based on the numbers of geese and actual number of goose hunters. I support the opportunity to kill geese, i.e. season dates, but I disagree with the bag limits. When geese start getting hit by cars, I'm sure the push will be on to kill them in to oblivion as well.
Click to expand...

Wonder who will get to read my survey... lmao
 
A

AMiller

Junior Member
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0
jagermeister said:
Keep in mind, counting live ducks is WAY easier than counting live deer.

Anyway... back to the survey...
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Do you know any specifics of how they make the count? Mainly do they just eyeball ducks from the sky, or do they take photos of the area and then analyze the photos after the flight?

Just curious ....
 
jagermeister

jagermeister

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Ohio
AMiller said:
Do you know any specifics of how they make the count? Mainly do they just eyeball ducks from the sky, or do they take photos of the area and then analyze the photos after the flight?

Just curious ....
Click to expand...

As far as I know, they do not take pics and analyze later. It's just a matter of counting. Actually, it's more general than that. Someone spies a wad of birds and says, "aaahhhh that looks like about a thousand." If there's just small pockets of birds they do count them individually, though. It's far from an exact science. I know there are a lot of times when the survey reports zero birds in a specific area but there are definitely birds there... They just miss them sometimes... Or they fly just one transect and don't observe the entire area. Even so, the consistency of the surveys does equate to a decent snapshot of what's going on with the migration.
 
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Jackalope

Jackalope

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jagermeister said:
Are you kidding me right now???
Click to expand...

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Nope. I'm wondering how you think it's WAY easier to fly around and count live ducks than count live deer.





It looks obviously easy to me.

And costs less to purchase and install than one game wardens truck.



[video=youtube;Wk4VPtEQbEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4VPtEQbEs[/video]
 
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jagermeister

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
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18,299
237
Ohio
Jackalope said:
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Nope. I'm wondering how you think it's WAY easier to fly around and count live ducks than count live deer.





It looks obviously easy to me.

And costs less to purchase and install than one game wardens truck.



[video=youtube;Wk4VPtEQbEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk4VPtEQbEs[/video]
Click to expand...

Big surprise there... I never would've guessed you were gonna throw in something relating to FLIR.

I find it hard to believe it can be done for less than a WO's truck, but whatever you say Jose. Ducks are right out in the open, in daylight during normal working hours. Even at night, there are deer in the timber, or in the swamps, or in the standing corn fields. Sure you can still see a lot in cover with FLIR, but likely not always. And I'd be willing to bet there's a lot less red tape to go through for a daytime flight than a nighttime FLIR expedition.

But whatever... You're going to scour the web and rack your brain for umpteen reasons why your POV is right and mine is wrong, like usual. Knock yourself out. I'm still wondering why a thread about a waterfowl survey, designed by the DOW to help them make better decisions, is being hijacked by the stale "mismanaged deer herd" comments. Have you run out of new places to make your point?
 
Jackalope

Jackalope

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jagermeister said:
Big surprise there... I never would've guessed you were gonna throw in something relating to FLIR.

I find it hard to believe it can be done for less than a WO's truck, but whatever you say Jose. Ducks are right out in the open, in daylight during normal working hours. Even at night, there are deer in the timber, or in the swamps, or in the standing corn fields. Sure you can still see a lot in cover with FLIR, but likely not always. And I'd be willing to bet there's a lot less red tape to go through for a daytime flight than a nighttime FLIR expedition.

But whatever... You're going to scour the web and rack your brain for umpteen reasons why your POV is right and mine is wrong, like usual. Knock yourself out. I'm still wondering why a thread about a waterfowl survey, designed by the DOW to help them make better decisions, is being hijacked by the stale "mismanaged deer herd" comments. Have you run out of new places to make your point?
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That system runs about 40k installed, weighs less than a pound, and can bolt to any airframe. Something you obviously don't know is FLIR can be ran during the day just as effectively as at night. It's IR chief, not night vision. While it would be less effective at counting deer during the day as they tend to be in more wooded areas, that shouldn't pose a problem in late winter with a FLIR system where dense cover is relatively nonexistent and an animals heat signature is 3-10x that of its surroundings. I believe it is you that needs to do a little reading on the subject as it pertains to the technology and it's capabilities as a deer management tool.

The reason it was brought up is the DNR wanted opinions on waterfowl, the same logic they've used as an excuse to decimate our deer population applies to our resident goose population that causes millions in property damage each year. Refusing to acknowledge that is hypocritical at best. What's good for the gander should be good for the goose right.

It was you who made the statement that counting millions of ducks was somehow WAY easier than counting deer. I don't need to rack my brain or scour the web for reasons I'm right and you're wrong. That's already pretty obvious.
 
jagermeister

jagermeister

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18,299
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Ohio
Jackalope said:
That system runs about 40k installed, weighs less than a pound, and can bolt to any airframe. Something you obviously don't know is FLIR can be ran during the day just as effectively as at night. It's IR chief, not night vision. While it would be less effective at counting deer during the day as they tend to be in more wooded areas, that shouldn't pose a problem in late winter with a FLIR system where dense cover is relatively nonexistent and an animals heat signature is 3-10x that of its surroundings. I believe it is you that needs to do a little reading on the subject as it pertains to the technology and it's capabilities as a deer management tool.

The reason it was brought up is the DNR wanted opinions on waterfowl, the same logic they've used as an excuse to decimate our deer population applies to our resident goose population that causes millions in property damage each year. Refusing to acknowledge that is hypocritical at best. What's good for the gander should be good for the goose right.

It was you who made the statement that counting millions of ducks was somehow WAY easier than counting deer. I don't need to rack my brain or scour the web for reasons I'm right and you're wrong. That's already pretty obvious.
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Its apples to oranges man. The majority of Ohio waterfowl hunters are pursuing birds that stage in the sandusky bay marsh region. A mere 2 hour flight across 2 counties will give you a damn good idea of what Ohio duck and goose hunters are going to experience within that couple weeks or even a month. The same cannot be said for deer. So let's see... Fly 2 counties for birds, or fly 88 counties for deer? I wonder which one would involve the most effort and resources...
 
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