Changes ahead

[RedCloud]

I just went into town to pick up some things for my bride. I spoke briefly with a man at the store about the new regulations. He thinks the reduced bag limits are great because he sees far less deer than he once did. "But most hunters aren't smart enough".... That rang in my ears, again. I'll give the DOW this; they are really, really good at passing along the right message to get the perception they hope for from the masses.

I never thought of it that way until I heard it come out of Tonks mouth. Now I hear that in my head almost every time I talk to guys around here. They have no clue that the majority of hunters only tag a single deer a season. I guess they think everybody but them fill every tag the state allows them lol.

 

[yotehunter]

This goes right to the now famous "10 deer in a woodlot" line of thinking. If there are 10 deer in a woodlot, you can kill 4 of them in three days, for example. If there are only 6 deer in a woodlot, you can still kill 4 of them if given a little more time to do it. Extend the seasons (add opportunity), and a higher percentage of the living deer will be killed.

Yes I agree more chances to take more deer should take more deer. I hate the thought of it. But if they are already gone then the numbers will be down even with the extra two days. It probably won't happen but if the numbers are lower again then we are in more trouble then we think.

 

[Bigslam51]

Corn piles kill a lot of deer in the late season. I'm sure a lot of people will be dumping it for the extra gun weekend.

 

[brock ratcliff]

Yes I agree more chances to take more deer should take more deer. I hate the thought of it. But if they are already gone then the numbers will be down even with the extra two days. It probably won't happen but if the numbers are lower again then we are in more trouble then we think.

About 5 or 6 years ago during a phone conversation with Mike T, I explained that we were reaching a very, very low level of deer in my area. He asked, "If there are less deer, why are you still seeing similar harvest numbers year to year"? My answer; "You keep adding opportunity", and went on to explain it isn't what is killed that mattered, it is what is left. He then said, "If the deer aren't there, the harvest numbers will eventually show it"... He was right. The next season our preliminary shotgun harvest total was 83 deer for the week! He had Mrex text me to say he would look at moving the county from a 4-deer zone to 2. So, essentially, once we killed most every deer in the county and left next to nothing for seed, he believed there might be a bit of an issue.

 

[giles]

About 5 or 6 years ago during a phone conversation with Mike T, I explained that we were reaching a very, very low level of deer in my area. He asked, "If there are less deer, why are you still seeing similar harvest numbers year to year"? My answer; "You keep adding opportunity", and went on to explain it isn't what is killed that mattered, it is what is left. He then said, "If the deer aren't there, the harvest numbers will eventually show it"... He was right. The next season our preliminary shotgun harvest total was 83 deer for the week! He had Mrex text me to say he would look at moving the county from a 4-deer zone to 2. So, essentially, once we killed most every deer in the county and left next to nothing for seed, he believed there might be a bit of an issue.

This will repeat itself before it's over. It's about the only way at this point...

 

[jagermeister]

I never thought of it that way until I heard it come out of Tonks mouth. Now I hear that in my head almost every time I talk to guys around here. They have no clue that the majority of hunters only tag a single deer a season. I guess they think everybody but them fill every tag the state allows them lol.

On page 11 of this thread you were complaining about how stupid it is for Crawford county to have a 3-deer limit. So does that put you in the category of thinking "everybody but you fills every tag the state allows them?" I'm just trying to figure this out. You guys keep saying how the ignorant hunters are all pointlessly hung up on the bag limits but still complain that your county's limit is too liberal. What sense does that make?

 

[RedCloud]

Now your putting words in my mouth JB. Twist it however you want buddy. I'm saying this county should NOT be a 3 deer county lumped in with other counties that tag 2-3x the amount of deer we do here. You can't tell me you honestly believe it should be. I'm just saying that the guys I talk to think that just because the DOW lowers the amount of tags a guy can get will actually make a difference. I'm one of the guys Tonk said was smarter then the average hunter That he claims is to stupid to figure things out on there own.

Just to make sure your not confused anymore let me add, no, I don't think just because the state says we are a 3 deer county that everybody will fill there 3 tags but me. I just find the B S the DOW and Tonk put out there to fool people into believing things are fine and we have enough deer for people to waste their time and money in hopes to do so is false advertisement. I wish they would just be honest about the shady shit they have done and what they plan to do. Stop the lies and blowing smoke up people ass.

 

[jagermeister]

Now your putting words in my mouth JB. Twist it however you want buddy. I'm saying this county should NOT be a 3 deer county lumped in with other counties that tag 2-3x the amount of deer we do here. You can't tell me you honestly believe it should be. I'm just saying that the guys I talk to think that just because the DOW lowers the amount of tags a guy can get will actually make a difference. I'm one of the guys Tonk said was smarter then the average hunter That he claims is to stupid to figure things out on there own.

How did I put words in your mouth?!?! If the tags don't matter, why does it matter what the bag limit is? Just answer it.

 

[Hortontoter]

On page 11 of this thread you were complaining about how stupid it is for Crawford county to have a 3-deer limit. So does that put you in the category of thinking "everybody but you fills every tag the state allows them?" I'm just trying to figure this out. You guys keep saying how the ignorant hunters are all pointlessly hung up on the bag limits but still complain that your county's limit is too liberal. What sense does that make?

I think that the county and state limit does matter. To what degree, it is hard to say. I'm not sure if I agree that most hunters only take 1 deer. Lets take a poll of the hunters on this site. How many of us took more than 1 deer this past season. If you wounded a deer, but didn't recover it, count it as a kill, because most likely it did die. Most of us complain about the herd numbers and bag limits, but do most of us take only 1 deer and quit hunting. I'm thinking most are still out there trying to kill their second, or third deer.

I'll go first. I shot a deer on Nov. 11 and didn't hunt a day after that.

 

[RedCloud]

How did I put words in your mouth?!?! If the tags don't matter, why does it matter what the bag limit is? Just answer it.

go back and read the added portion of my last post. I honestly don't know how you can take 2 posts talking about 2 different things and make them out to be the same amazes me

 

[jagermeister]

go back and read the added portion of my last post. I honestly don't know how you can take 2 posts talking about 2 different things and make them out to be the same amazes me

Haha the fact you keep dancing around it is amazing to me! You weren't talking about 2 different things man. One post complained that the crawford county limit is too liberal and the next says you agree with Brock about the reduction of bag limits being nothing more than a ruse to satisfy ignorant hunters. All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. If you truly feel the bag limits are worthless, and the reduction of them is just a feel-good approach, you shouldn't have any reason to be dissatisfied with your county's current bag limit. If it's true that the limits are insignificant, it shouldn't matter to you whether the limit is 10 or 1.

 

[jagermeister]

I'm just saying that the guys I talk to think that just because the DOW lowers the amount of tags a guy can get will actually make a difference.

Adam, I re-read the edited portion of your post and I still dont think it applies to my original question. The portion quoted above is what doesn't make sense to me. Read what you typed. That statement says flat out that you don't believe lowering a county's bag limit will make any difference. If that's how you feel, it is nothing more than hypocrisy to complain about your own county's bag limit... Regardless of how it compares to other counties.

 

[RedCloud]

Haha the fact you keep dancing around it is amazing to me! You weren't talking about 2 different things man. One post complained that the crawford county limit is too liberal and the next says you agree with Brock about the reduction of bag limits being nothing more than a ruse to satisfy ignorant hunters. All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. If you truly feel the bag limits are worthless, and the reduction of them is just a feel-good approach, you shouldn't have any reason to be dissatisfied with your county's current bag limit. If it's true that the limits are insignificant, it shouldn't matter to you whether the limit is 10 or 1.

I see your glasses are still blinding you there buddy. I don't give 2 shits about the tag limit But to put this county in the same class as other counties that tag 2-3x the amont we do is clearly the DOW'S way to blow smoke up the ass of uneducated hunters. It's nothing but false representation saying our county has as many deer as these other counties when anybody that spends any time at all in our woods knows better. However, any other hunter out there that had not spent time in the woods here would think otherwise if they just go off the bag limits allowed don't you think.

 

[jagermeister]

I see your glasses are still blinding you there buddy. I don't give 2 shits about the tag limit But to put this county in the same class as other counties that tag 2-3x the amont we do is clearly the DOW'S way to blow smoke up the ass of uneducated hunters. It's nothing but false representation saying our county has as many deer as these other counties when anybody that spends any time at all in our woods knows better. However, any other hunter out there that had not spent time in the woods here would think otherwise if they just go off the bag limits allowed don't you think.

Haha. Nope, I got new contacts recently. My vision has never been so clear.

Crawford County has never been a "destination county" for deer hunters and it never will be... No matter what the bag limit is. People look at the total harvest, not the bag limit, to decide what counties have more deer. Calling it false advertisement to keep Crawford as a 3 deer county is hilarious. So again, you still haven't answered or addressed my original question. I'll just let it go and put my rose colored glasses back on.

 

[brock ratcliff]

I used to view things exactly as you are describing them Adam, and by that I mean that a 4 deer county equates to another 4 deer county in terms of deer density, etc. The difference I'm hoping the DOW is taking into account would be hunter density. For example, there are thousands of people hunting deer in Athens Co. I seriously doubt Fayette County's hunter density is anywhere near that...not even close. So, having Fayette's bag limit the same as Athens' can make sense if you figure in the number of hunters in each area. Just my thoughts, I haven't read that in any DOW releases, but surely it is a factor.

And, I have no idea why I still try to have faith in the DOW on any level with this stuff, or why I would feel the need to point out the tidbit above... Bringing back "bonus weekend"...pfft.

 

[RedCloud]

Haha. Nope, I got new contacts recently. My vision has never been so clear.

Crawford County has never been a "destination county" for deer hunters and it never will be... No matter what the bag limit is. People look at the total harvest, not the bag limit, to decide what counties have more deer. Calling it false advertisement to keep Crawford as a 3 deer county is hilarious. So again, you still haven't answered or addressed my original question. I'll just let it go and put my rose colored glasses back on.

I did answer you more then once. You just don't want to hear it. Keep beating that drum of yours bud and stirring the pot.

 

[jagermeister]

I did answer you more then once. You just don't want to hear it. Keep beating that drum of yours bud and stirring the pot.

Geez. All I did was pose an honest question looking for an honest answer. Now I'm a blind, drum beating, pot stirrer. Sorry, but I disagree with you.

 

[RedCloud]

I don't. Our county might not be the destination county like Athens but just in my little neck of the woods we get out of staters and guys from surrounding counties hunting here.

I know your not stupid and you know damn well what I'm saying and trying to convey in writing but yet you continue to play dumb. That's fine, go ahead and do what your going to do. I'm done being sucked in to your game.

 

[jagermeister]

I don't. Our county might not be the destination county like Athens but just in my little neck of the woods we get out of staters and guys from surrounding counties hunting here.

I know your not stupid and you know damn well what I'm saying and trying to convey in writing but yet you continue to play dumb. That's fine, go ahead and do what your going to do. I'm done being sucked in to your game.

Dude, I'm not playing a fugging game. The fact that you think I am is truly disappointing. Even the last point you made a couple posts ago... About comparing Crawford to other counties... I told you why it didn't make sense and so did Brock. Yet YOU ignored it. Your supposed "answers" are not addressing my original point... That you shouldn't bitch about bag limits if you believe they have no influence on the harvest. It's got nothing to do with comparing one county to the next or false advertising or whatever else you've said so far. I'm not playing a game... I'm not playing dumb... And I'm not stirring any pot. Instead of making excuses and sarcastic comments about me, you could give me a legitimate response and I'd let it go.

 

[brock ratcliff]

No, Brock explained there COULD be a reason to have a lower density county with a higher bag limit. I'm still not convinced the DOW uses enough foresight these days to pull that off, I'd just like to hope they do.