Deer Gun Harvest Totals Decline

[cspot]

Where's my dang like button. We can only blame hunters if they're educated to the fact that what they're doing is not good. If we have a DNR telling hunters to kill kill kill and the hunters trust the DNR to have their best interest at heart, then the hunter is not to blame. They were deceived and used as a tool to accomplish the DNRs goal to their own detriment. And while it was they who pulled the trigger they have every right to be pissed at that DNR once the reality hits. The key is education, unification, and communication. If successful the DNR can set the limit at 10000 each and hunters will say no. Fool me once.

One problem is QDMA preached for a long time the need to kill does and it was implied that you would have bigger buck. So many hunters based upon this education killed as many does as they could thinking it would lead to bigger buck. Now many of these people realize that the herd reduction went too far. I am not against QDMA, but it was preached for quite a while including on alot of hunting shows.

 

[Fletch]

Hence the educational component of this venture. A lot of guys are fixing on the "blame the DNR" part of this and really, that's not the point. I was guilty of letting the DNR influence me early on and then I got wise to what was going on. I stopped shooting does on our farm 5 years ago, as did one neighbor. Now we have a decent herd of does and we know what restraint can do. That's a message we plan to present to membership: At the end of the day, we as hunters also have control and we can make a difference if we are educated.

Not sure of your venture... But yes education is key.. And I'll go as far as saying that woodsmanship is the best education.. Don't go by everything that is preached to you from the so-called professional's... Best thing you did to stop shooting does and let the herd rebound on your property.. Good for you.

 

[Fletch]

One problem is QDMA preached for a long time the need to kill does and it was implied that you would have bigger buck. So many hunters based upon this education killed as many does as they could thinking it would lead to bigger buck. Now many of these people realize that the herd reduction went too far. I am not against QDMA, but it was preached for quite a while including on alot of hunting shows.

QDMA that was introduced by Gary Alt with point restrictions in Pa. was the best thing to happen to the Pa. deer herd... However he also insisted that the doe population had to be brought into balance.. Being a resident of Pa. you know how well this went over.. Not TOO good.. Gary was perhaps one of the best bear bioligists.. You can thank him for Pa's current bear population.

 

[Blan37]

Where's my dang like button. We can only blame hunters if they're educated to the fact that what they're doing is not good. If we have a DNR telling hunters to kill kill kill and the hunters trust the DNR to have their best interest at heart, then the hunter is not to blame. They were deceived and used as a tool to accomplish the DNRs goal to their own detriment. And while it was they who pulled the trigger they have every right to be pissed at that DNR once the reality hits. The key is education, unification, and communication. If successful the DNR can set the limit at 10000 each and hunters will say no. Fool me once.

This is exactly the way I saw it. I trusted the ODNR bag limits were set the way they were because the population was too high. The question I never thought to ask was, "too high for who?" I just assumed it was because of carrying capacity or something along those lines. Didn't really understand how much influence insurance companies had on the equation.

I think OWA sounds promising. Looking forward to hearing more.

 

[Fletch]

Cspot... Till later more important things right now.... Like... Penquins vs Rangers.... GO PEN'S...

 

[Jamie]

if there is one thing I've seen over and over and over in my 30 years as a pretty serious archery deer hunter it is that the "average" deer hunter is not educated about sound management practices, nor do they care to be. you cannot, will not, reach these folks and enlighten them or get them to join your cause. they simply do not care, and they comprise 90% of the deer hunters in the state, nation, world. whatever data you glean from internet forums, facebook, etc., does not represent a statistically sound sample in my head. I know at least 50 people who call themselves deer hunters who don't pay one bit of attention to any of this or trends in the harvest numbers or any of it. they buy a tag and go hunting a few times. I can count on one hand the real serious(competent, successful) deer hunters I know. the 1-2% of deer hunters that are interested enough to participate or join such an organization won't make a difference. besides, isn't it obvious that the DOW doesn't place any REAL stock in what hunters want? they never have, and they never will because it isn't their job to cater to hunters. we are the tool, they are the hand that wields it, not the other way around.

my two cents, forget about your "seat at the table". focus your efforts on the education portion of your plan. the rest of it is a fools errand.

 

[cspot]

QDMA that was introduced by Gary Alt with point restrictions in Pa. was the best thing to happen to the Pa. deer herd... However he also insisted that the doe population had to be brought into balance.. Being a resident of Pa. you know how well this went over.. Not TOO good.. Gary was perhaps one of the best bear bioligists.. You can thank him for Pa's current bear population.

Not a big fan of AR personally, but the majority of hunters like it so that is fine. I will save the AR discussion for another day though. The PGC has been listening to hunters the last few years and has cut alot of doe tags. Anyway back to the Pens game. Crosby just scored!!!

 

[Carpn]

So you would say this forum is comprised mostly of uneducated and lesser hunters? Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying? Please expand on this thought if you have time Jake.

Not in the least . I feel like we aren't any better than anyone else . But I don't think others do . I get the vibe that "We are Better " when we are really just all equal . I see alot of bashing of the average Ohio hunter and chest thumping . That's all .

 

[5Cent]

I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter. Certainly not telling people what to do. I respect what everyone is saying and I think their are a lot of good points being made.

Its all good man, wish you would not have edited your original post. They are just words and I am on the side of the line that 99% on this board do not understand or respect and that is OK. While I respect your opinion, the last 2 sentences that create your closing paragraphs are statements telling ppl what to do. I do not need to practice restraint or grow up (because I cant, lol):smiley_coolpeace:

First deer I killed was in 96' in PA. I fully support the point restrictions and was able to see its positive results.

 

[Joel]

Fugg Ohio, fugg deer and fugg you!!

Just kidding.

 

[Jackalope]

if there is one thing I've seen over and over and over in my 30 years as a pretty serious archery deer hunter it is that the "average" deer hunter is not educated about sound management practices, nor do they care to be. you cannot, will not, reach these folks and enlighten them or get them to join your cause. they simply do not care, and they comprise 90% of the deer hunters in the state, nation, world. whatever data you glean from internet forums, facebook, etc., does not represent a statistically sound sample in my head. I know at least 50 people who call themselves deer hunters who don't pay one bit of attention to any of this or trends in the harvest numbers or any of it. they buy a tag and go hunting a few times. I can count on one hand the real serious(competent, successful) deer hunters I know. the 1-2% of deer hunters that are interested enough to participate or join such an organization won't make a difference. besides, isn't it obvious that the DOW doesn't place any REAL stock in what hunters want? they never have, and they never will because it isn't their job to cater to hunters. we are the tool, they are the hand that wields it, not the other way around.

my two cents, forget about your "seat at the table". focus your efforts on the education portion of your plan. the rest of it is a fools errand.

Maybe you're right. I hope you're not. All I can say is thank God that others before saw a need and stepped up to try to make a positive difference in their area. It always starts with a spark.

In 1937, Knapp, Robert Winthrop, and a small group of conservation philanthropists decided to focus on the decreasing waterfowl populations, and the habitat necessary to sustain them in Canada, and formed Ducks Unlimited Inc

Following a series of meetings in coastal South Carolina in 1988, a core group of volunteers outlined the framework of a new group that would become the QDMA. They scraped together their own money to launch a newsletter, and Joe sketched a logo for the group: a buck and doe silhouette. This core group was eventually named the Lowcountry Branch, the first Branch of the QDMA, and it is still active today.

History. The U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance was originally known as the Wildlife Legislative Fund of America and Wildlife Conservation Fund of America and was formed in 1977 after an Ohio Ballot threatened Ohio's trapping community. The organization was officially incorporated in 1978 as The U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance.

 

[Jackalope]

Not in the least . I feel like we aren't any better than anyone else . But I don't think others do . I get the vibe that "We are Better " when we are really just all equal . I see alot of bashing of the average Ohio hunter and chest thumping . That's all .

Yet another issue that an organization like the Ohio Whitetail Alliance could try to help resolve through organization and unification.

 

[Jal5]

[emoji1303]
Agreed Adam.... The DNR made the bag limits and we as hunters filled out tags and at the time weren't worried about #'s.... Fast forward, they capitalized on our greed too fill the freezers.... Mine included....

Agreed.

 

[Jal5]

I have been passing on does for two years now to let the deer reproduce on the property.

 

[Fullbore]

The main thing that chaps my ass is that for almost 10 years I've been hearing from the ODNR. Is that the Ohio deer population was near 750,000. Personally, the population on our property is good and our club has managed to build the numbers up on our lease these past 4-5 years.
I agree totally that we the hunters have the ability to control the numbers by using some self control when pulling the trigger.

 

[Gordo]

Well here's how it works. The head of the DNR is appointed by the governor, those under him are appointed by him. In an election year when a new governor takes office it's not uncommon for them to appoint a new DNR leader. He then either keeps the previous leaders management team or puts who he wants in place. This would include the head of the DOW.

The DOW does not set the hunting regulations as they're state laws. They make a recommendation to the wildlife council for the new regs who then votes to send it to the state legislature.

So that's the flow of things. What happens is the farm and insurance lobby donate campaign contributions to the governor and the state legislators. They do this to get their way. So if they want the states deer population reduced they just call up their bought and paid for politicians and tells them to put pressure on the DNR, who then puts pressure on the DOW. It's not likely the guys at the DNR will tell the politician who put them in that job to go piss up a rope.

To answer your question about money.. There were 21,314 vehicles involved in deer vehicle accidents in ohio in 2015 costing insurance companies 85.1 million dollars in insurance claims. That's money leaving their pockets every year. So they decide they want to keep more of that money. Their solution. Get the DOW to cut the deer population in half. If they can do that they'll keep an extra 42.5 million dollars in their pockets each year. What would your budget be to save 42.5 million dollars a year? Even if the spend half, say 21 million per year buying politicians they will still make 21 million for their troubles.

So I can't tell you how much they spend. Only that they can spend a massive amount. Especially when you consider your average state reps entire campaign might cost a couple million max. Thats a lot of cheese to spread around buying politicians.

Politics 101. All about the 'cheddar'$ and the folks with the cheddar. Good summary

 

[xbowguy]

I'm not going into specific people here, but WTF FELLAS? (I know, I'm the guy who told someone to go fuck him self) But we should be able to talk without getting insulting to someones opinion. Or stating your opinion like it is the one and only answer. Keeping this in check is what would make or break this site. By no means do I believe I am above anyone. I just see something that needs a little attention. Just my .02 worth.....:smiley_coolpeace:

 

[5Cent]

These boys get that syrup in 'em, they get all antsy in their pantsy.

 

[Jackalope]

I'm not going into specific people here, but WTF FELLAS? (I know, I'm the guy who told someone to go fuck him self) But we should be able to talk without getting insulting to someones opinion. Or stating your opinion like it is the one and only answer. Keeping this in check is what would make or break this site. By no means do I believe I am above anyone. I just see something that needs a little attention. Just my .02 worth.....:smiley_coolpeace:

It is beyond me why anyone would have a problem with wanting to inform and unify hunters for a common goal. It's obvious to anyone paying attention that hunters are not happy with the current situation, and that hunters aren't receiving their fair share of consideration. It's also obvious that as hunters we need to be more unified and informed. Why anyone would have an issue with that is beyond me. Especially if it's backed by data and member hunter opinion surveys and a full blown non-profit structure with governance. Unless it's not about that at all and is just personal bias for who is doing it, not what they're doing.

 

[Gern186]

Well here's how it works. The head of the DNR is appointed by the governor, those under him are appointed by him. In an election year when a new governor takes office it's not uncommon for them to appoint a new DNR leader. He then either keeps the previous leaders management team or puts who he wants in place. This would include the head of the DOW.

The DOW does not set the hunting regulations as they're state laws. They make a recommendation to the wildlife council for the new regs who then votes to send it to the state legislature.

So that's the flow of things. What happens is the farm and insurance lobby donate campaign contributions to the governor and the state legislators. They do this to get their way. So if they want the states deer population reduced they just call up their bought and paid for politicians and tells them to put pressure on the DNR, who then puts pressure on the DOW. It's not likely the guys at the DNR will tell the politician who put them in that job to go piss up a rope.

To answer your question about money.. There were 21,314 vehicles involved in deer vehicle accidents in ohio in 2015 costing insurance companies 85.1 million dollars in insurance claims. That's money leaving their pockets every year. So they decide they want to keep more of that money. Their solution. Get the DOW to cut the deer population in half. If they can do that they'll keep an extra 42.5 million dollars in their pockets each year. What would your budget be to save 42.5 million dollars a year? Even if the spend half, say 21 million per year buying politicians they will still make 21 million for their troubles.

So I can't tell you how much they spend. Only that they can spend a massive amount. Especially when you consider your average state reps entire campaign might cost a couple million max. Thats a lot of cheese to spread around buying politicians.

Where do you arrive at this number Joe?