The wife and I hunted public land at Salt Fork Monday,Tuesday and this morning. Overall it reminded me of public hunting during turkey hunting. We'd hear some shots but barely saw anyone in the woods Monday and Tuesday. Then this morning we had one moron walk in with ten minutes to shooting light, walk past her at fifteen yards, stop and look at me when I flashed my light at him and then sit down twenty yards directly in front of me. I got up and talked to him about the safety issues involved in that and he moved but the damage was done since the wife had been watching three deer that ran when he came. All other hunters encountered were very nice and courteous and everyone just enjoyed being out and were excited for anyone getting any deer.
First day numbers
- Thread starter Boarhead
- Start date
I guess the deer and deer hunters and cover and landowners are close to the same for you and i.
My son and I will be at Salt Fork this afternoon and through Saturday if we can stand the rain that is forecast.
I had a similar situation last year at Salt Fork. Son and I were sitting together and had been there all day. About 3:30pm three guys stroll right through and walk past us saying maybe they'll kick something up. Thought nothing of it - walked through the way we were facing and down over the hill. About 20 minutes later I hear a shot from them and then a follow up. I was more than a little pissed. I get it's public but when I see someone I either back out, go around, whatever. I don't just waltz right through bullshitting with my buddies.
Anyway, we waited at the parking lot to see what they drug out. Nothing - guys said he walked over the hill and 3 deer were there. He got a shot off and then his gun jammed. Got it cleared and missed again. Amateur hour...
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Hortontoter
Senior Member
I believe both numbers are down. The number of huntable deer in Ohio is down considerably IMO. Sure, there are pockets with decent numbers here and there. But, overall it ain't what it was 5 years ago.
I think the number of hunters is also declining. Or is it actually that the number of licenses and tags sold have declined. IMO TeleCheck has taken cheating to a new level. Let's use this as an example. Mr Hunter lives on a city lot in downtown Canton. He hunts on a farm 30 minutes from his house in rural Stark or Carroll County. In mid October he kills a deer on this farm. He doesn't have a license or a deer tag. But, he does have himself a homemade landowner tag. He ties on the tag, guts the deer and takes it home to butcher in his garage. He gets home drives in the garage and throws away his "landowner" tag. So easy a cave man could do it.
I've brought quite a few deer home with my landowner tag that I shot on my property. Never once was I stopped on the 60 mile trip home to see if this deer was legally tagged. I could also easily bring home a buck and get on the PC and check it in with my wifes name any time I'd like. I won't do that but, I'll bet many will and do. It is just to easy to cheat the system IMO.
Numbers in my mind mean very little, because there are to many variables. I know from seat time the deer numbers where I hunt are no where near what they were just five years ago. Even my cameras confirm this to be true.
I think the number of hunters is also declining. Or is it actually that the number of licenses and tags sold have declined. IMO TeleCheck has taken cheating to a new level. Let's use this as an example. Mr Hunter lives on a city lot in downtown Canton. He hunts on a farm 30 minutes from his house in rural Stark or Carroll County. In mid October he kills a deer on this farm. He doesn't have a license or a deer tag. But, he does have himself a homemade landowner tag. He ties on the tag, guts the deer and takes it home to butcher in his garage. He gets home drives in the garage and throws away his "landowner" tag. So easy a cave man could do it.
I've brought quite a few deer home with my landowner tag that I shot on my property. Never once was I stopped on the 60 mile trip home to see if this deer was legally tagged. I could also easily bring home a buck and get on the PC and check it in with my wifes name any time I'd like. I won't do that but, I'll bet many will and do. It is just to easy to cheat the system IMO.
Numbers in my mind mean very little, because there are to many variables. I know from seat time the deer numbers where I hunt are no where near what they were just five years ago. Even my cameras confirm this to be true.
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State Land is always a shit show in my estimation.... So many inconsiderate people out there its just unbelieveable... I never get high expectations when I'm forced to hunt state land, in fact I always got the attitude of it being a wasted day, but what the hell might get some good laughs...
A few years ago in Pa. during bear season I found a very promising looking spot for the upcoming buck season... A nice thick ridgetop with a lot of producing oaks and buck rubs everywhere... And it was quite aways off the beaten path... So with high expectations I was on stand a good hour before daylight.. Just at daylight I hear a twig snap and go to high alert... Here comes some asshole walking in and he walks within 20 yds of me... I make sure I make my presence known and he proceeds to walk about 40 yds past me and plop his fat ass down on a log facing away from me... So I cough and whistle and he ignores me... So I get up and walk over to him and explain to him the existing problem and that he should move on... He says: I'm not going to affect you as I'm looking the other way... REALLY??? So I walk back to my spot and pick up my pack and go over to him and sit down on the same log right against him and say well we might as well share this spot then... Then I reached down and take his hand and said we might as well hold hands... We this he got up, gave me a confused look and headed off for parts unknown... Boy did I F with his mind.... No I did not shoot a deer that day, but to this day I chuckle at the thought of that encounter....
On a brighter note.... The next year I pull into the parking area and right in back of me a van pulls in... As me and my brother suit up a younger guy comes over and asks where we were going to be hunting as he didn't want to mess us up.... After we explained where we were going he said good I'm a good ways from you... Come 8:15 Am I shoot a nice buck and begin dragging him out and I see a guy walking towards me... It turned out to be the same guy we talked to earlier... So he say's come on I'll help you drag him out... I respond: Go back to your spot and get your self a deer as I have all day to get the deer out as my brother will be in till dark... We that I look at his gun and it has no sights or scope on it... I ask him how the heck are you going to get a deer with no sights??? He reponds that his short on cash and can't afford it... Now just the night before I was looking for something and came across a new 4 power Redfield scope still in the sealed box.... With mounts for a Remington 700, the exact gun he had... Knowing that I'd never use that scope, I handed him a piece of paper and pen and asked for his address as I was going to mail him the scope... That day got home dropped the deer off at the butcher, went home and wrapped up the scope and mounts and mailed it... Couple days later I get a call and its him... He said the scope was waiting for him when he got home... He also said: I gotta tell ya.... As you walked away from me in the woods the other day, I thought to myself: Yeh ok, who's he bullshitting, hes going to mail me a brand new scope... Guess I made a believer out of him... I still get an occasional phone call from him... And hes made good use out of the scope... And yes to this day I still think back on that encounter and get a good feeling over it....
A few years ago in Pa. during bear season I found a very promising looking spot for the upcoming buck season... A nice thick ridgetop with a lot of producing oaks and buck rubs everywhere... And it was quite aways off the beaten path... So with high expectations I was on stand a good hour before daylight.. Just at daylight I hear a twig snap and go to high alert... Here comes some asshole walking in and he walks within 20 yds of me... I make sure I make my presence known and he proceeds to walk about 40 yds past me and plop his fat ass down on a log facing away from me... So I cough and whistle and he ignores me... So I get up and walk over to him and explain to him the existing problem and that he should move on... He says: I'm not going to affect you as I'm looking the other way... REALLY??? So I walk back to my spot and pick up my pack and go over to him and sit down on the same log right against him and say well we might as well share this spot then... Then I reached down and take his hand and said we might as well hold hands... We this he got up, gave me a confused look and headed off for parts unknown... Boy did I F with his mind.... No I did not shoot a deer that day, but to this day I chuckle at the thought of that encounter....
On a brighter note.... The next year I pull into the parking area and right in back of me a van pulls in... As me and my brother suit up a younger guy comes over and asks where we were going to be hunting as he didn't want to mess us up.... After we explained where we were going he said good I'm a good ways from you... Come 8:15 Am I shoot a nice buck and begin dragging him out and I see a guy walking towards me... It turned out to be the same guy we talked to earlier... So he say's come on I'll help you drag him out... I respond: Go back to your spot and get your self a deer as I have all day to get the deer out as my brother will be in till dark... We that I look at his gun and it has no sights or scope on it... I ask him how the heck are you going to get a deer with no sights??? He reponds that his short on cash and can't afford it... Now just the night before I was looking for something and came across a new 4 power Redfield scope still in the sealed box.... With mounts for a Remington 700, the exact gun he had... Knowing that I'd never use that scope, I handed him a piece of paper and pen and asked for his address as I was going to mail him the scope... That day got home dropped the deer off at the butcher, went home and wrapped up the scope and mounts and mailed it... Couple days later I get a call and its him... He said the scope was waiting for him when he got home... He also said: I gotta tell ya.... As you walked away from me in the woods the other day, I thought to myself: Yeh ok, who's he bullshitting, hes going to mail me a brand new scope... Guess I made a believer out of him... I still get an occasional phone call from him... And hes made good use out of the scope... And yes to this day I still think back on that encounter and get a good feeling over it....
Good luck to the two of you, hope you have better luck than we did. It's still my favorite place to hunt with many better memories than bad. Be safe.
Sgt Fury
Sgt. Spellchecker
You got me beat! Holding a guys hand! Classic! I had a guy place bait on my pile and put up a stand 20 yards away. (It is state land but I’ve been hunting this spot since 1982 and my stand was clearly visible 25 yards from the pile). He also put a note on my tree stating that he will be hunting here starting on opening day of firearms season. This happened in 2007 and I had just come back from Saskatchewan with a 16 pointer, so I really didn’t care if I got a buck or not. Well, this jack wagon comes in at first light, argues with me, and proceeds to get into his stand. After about ten minutes into shooting light, I tell him we may as well have a pissing contest and pull out my hydrolics and piss as hard as I could toward him....trying to make a big arc in the air. When I finish, I start shaking it at him and start clucking like a chicken. HE STAYED! Then I got on my cell phone and started calling everyone I knew....talking as loud as I could. After about three hours, he tells me that I’m the worst hunter that he’s ever seen and that I’ll never ever kill a deer. Finally leaves about 10:00. I pulled my stand and went to my backup stand. Before I left, I emptied a entire can of CRC in his stand. He did have the balls to come to our hunting club (must’ve noticed my hat with the club name on it) and tried acting tough. After I got in his face and told him what I was going to do to him (mentioned something about balls deep) if I ever saw him in those woods again, he must’ve detected that I wasn’t kidding, because I never saw him again. Felt good to F with someone who had no respect for others. It amazes me that people think that their behavior is ok when they intrude on someone whose already hunting in a certain spot and plop down 20-30 yards away.
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Sgt... After reading that I think we might be cast from the same mold... As you know this Monday is opening of our shotgun buck week.... So the assholes will be out in force... I don't know what to take: my 870 or a cam corder and just film the circle jerk... I just may sleep in as my serious hunting takes place in Illinois...
I've noticed this year, that I see less deer (along the roads on the way to work, and on the way home), than I have in years past. It's an isolated data point, good for almost nothing (ag fields, developments, & small wood lots on the NNW side of Columbus). I have seen, while bow hunting, several more coyotes than I have ever seen (around 8 - 10 am on weekends). I've considered 'chooting' them, as their observation matches with my lower deer numbers.
I hunted Tuesday, and saw only one deer. I didn't hear any shots local to me, while sitting. I expected to hear a lot of comotion, between 7:00 and 12:00 noon, but almost nothing (Delaware County).
I do agree, when I first started hunting in Ohio (2010) there seemed to be more deer than there are now. But I spend most of my day in an office, behind a desk, so what do I know.
Still comparing the sign & numbers of Ohio, to rural upstate NY, there is no comparison. Hunting here is easy, and still fun. Who knows.
I hunted Tuesday, and saw only one deer. I didn't hear any shots local to me, while sitting. I expected to hear a lot of comotion, between 7:00 and 12:00 noon, but almost nothing (Delaware County).
I do agree, when I first started hunting in Ohio (2010) there seemed to be more deer than there are now. But I spend most of my day in an office, behind a desk, so what do I know.
Still comparing the sign & numbers of Ohio, to rural upstate NY, there is no comparison. Hunting here is easy, and still fun. Who knows.
dante322
*Supporting Member*
My two cents...
The harvest numbers on gun opener are down for a multitude of reasons...
Less participation.
The older guys dont get out like they used to and the younger generation doesn't want to. It's easier to sleep in and play video games. Getting up early and going out in the cold takes an effort, the new liberal entitled, instant gratification generation doesn't like to make an effort. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part, hunting is loosing interest importance with each generation.
Crossbows
Not bashing... I use one too. Guys that used to only gun hunt and take time off during gun week because they didnt have time to practice regularly with a bow, are now taking time off during the rut instead because they now have a powerful, accurate bow with a scope and a trigger.
Leasing
It becomes more of a problem with each passing year. Land that used to get hunted all season by several hunters is now only getting hunted during the rut by one or two guys and being largely left alone during gun season. Unless it's being leased by an outfitter, then it will be lightly hunted.
Smaller herd
Debate all you want, it's hard to deny the hard is smaller now than it was 8 to 10 years ago. Personally I think it's in a good spot right now. There is a huntable population without being over populated. Fewer road kills makes the insurance companies happy, less crop loss makes the farmers happy, huntable population makes the hunters happy. I feel we've achieved a balance and now it's time to maintain it
Telecheck
Lol... it just a trainwreck
As far as this year specifically, the weather played a role for sure. And it will be a factor this weekend as well. Another issue around here, we still have a lot of standing corn. I dont ever recall seeing this much during gun week.
The harvest numbers on gun opener are down for a multitude of reasons...
Less participation.
The older guys dont get out like they used to and the younger generation doesn't want to. It's easier to sleep in and play video games. Getting up early and going out in the cold takes an effort, the new liberal entitled, instant gratification generation doesn't like to make an effort. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part, hunting is loosing interest importance with each generation.
Crossbows
Not bashing... I use one too. Guys that used to only gun hunt and take time off during gun week because they didnt have time to practice regularly with a bow, are now taking time off during the rut instead because they now have a powerful, accurate bow with a scope and a trigger.
Leasing
It becomes more of a problem with each passing year. Land that used to get hunted all season by several hunters is now only getting hunted during the rut by one or two guys and being largely left alone during gun season. Unless it's being leased by an outfitter, then it will be lightly hunted.
Smaller herd
Debate all you want, it's hard to deny the hard is smaller now than it was 8 to 10 years ago. Personally I think it's in a good spot right now. There is a huntable population without being over populated. Fewer road kills makes the insurance companies happy, less crop loss makes the farmers happy, huntable population makes the hunters happy. I feel we've achieved a balance and now it's time to maintain it
Telecheck
Lol... it just a trainwreck
As far as this year specifically, the weather played a role for sure. And it will be a factor this weekend as well. Another issue around here, we still have a lot of standing corn. I dont ever recall seeing this much during gun week.
I agree with a lot already said but another thing I never see mentioned is pressure for the entire month of November. Then the bow hunters putting all this pressure on blame the gun toters...wasn’t always like that either. But you can’t pound the woods for a month then think a gun is going to make a difference. I honestly believe I hear more shots fired when it isn’t gun season.
that pretty well sums it up for me, too. the crossbow being the single largest factor, by a wide margin. actual numbers prove that. no way to tell for sure how much effect leasing, weather, deer numbers, hunter numbers or standing corn actually have, but I believe they all have an impact.
I completely disagree about Telecheck. how we check our deer is much ado about nothing. it's easier to check a deer now than it has ever been. cheaters are gonna cheat whether they have to drive to a checking station or make a phone call. if there is a shred of evidence that there is more fraud now with checking deer than there was 20 years ago, please show me where to find it.
Spencie
Senior Member
In my corner of the World on the border of Athens and Washington counties I know that in the area there are sufficient deer numbers but not on my farm. I have one gravity feeder that I have kept full since late September. My Dad hunted it once and killed a doe. One of 3 deer he saw in a 10.5 hour sit. I saw one 8 point at 12:15 Monday that I decided to shoot because I have had nothing good on cam for weeks. Meanwhile on the neighbors they are piling them up at the bait stations. I know of 5 mature bucks killed by the outfitters group this week...one an absolute stud 8. They also took 4 in archery. On the other side a group of leasers from WV have killed 4 mature bucks at their bait...one a 3 beam freak. A buddy that has a farm also on that side has seen a ton of deer just no shooters at his corn piles.
Although I thought the shooting was down a bit Monday (weather related or maybe I just couldn't hear it because of the wind) there was still lots of shots. There have been gun seasons where I have heard 100s ...yes as in multiple 100s ....in a week of gun hunting.
Although I thought the shooting was down a bit Monday (weather related or maybe I just couldn't hear it because of the wind) there was still lots of shots. There have been gun seasons where I have heard 100s ...yes as in multiple 100s ....in a week of gun hunting.
Schu72
Well-Known Member
I think dante is spot on. One thing I would add in addition is that I think more hunters are cutting the slick heads a break. They saw what happened to their local herds a few years back when they were whackin' and stackin'.
Hortontoter
Senior Member
If the cheaters were caught the evidence would be visible. The DNR would be able to write enough tickets that the price of licenses and tags could probably be reduced. Call me crazy, but I believe Telecheck has more to do with reducing the herd than most of us realize. My minds wonders all the time how many bucks are checked in as does. I guess experiences I've witnessed first hand by so called "sportsmen" over the years has given me a different opinion of many hunters. I've seen the evidence of cheating and bending the rules. I've reported it and never once saw anything done about it. This makes me think that only a small minority of hunters really care about the future of our sport.
Joel
Senior Member
I’ve heard a lot of people say telecheck is a bad thing and I just don’t see it that way. I’m sure there are scumbags out there that don’t properly check their deer but as others have said cheaters are going to cheat. The old check in stations could probably be cheated just as easily if the scumbag even took the deer into one.
People that are cheating the check in system are poachers IMO and I think we’re always going to have a problem with poachers.
Someone shot a buck on a property that I hunt a few years ago. Shot it with a rifle during bow season, cut the head off and left the carcass in the woods. Only me and one other guy have permission back there and it sure as hell wasnt either of us. Those are the people we need to worry about.
I agree with a lot of the other theories on why the numbers are down for the opener.
People that are cheating the check in system are poachers IMO and I think we’re always going to have a problem with poachers.
Someone shot a buck on a property that I hunt a few years ago. Shot it with a rifle during bow season, cut the head off and left the carcass in the woods. Only me and one other guy have permission back there and it sure as hell wasnt either of us. Those are the people we need to worry about.
I agree with a lot of the other theories on why the numbers are down for the opener.
Well the guys that know what they're doing don't over pressure their spots. They get in and out undetected. My best farm was fine when I left it before gun week, I'll go back and there won't be a mature buck within a half mile of it.
Unless you're parachuting into your tree, you're not getting in and out undetected. Doesn't matter how careful you are. You're still leaving behind some sort of presence. And IMO most bowhunters probably aren't near as careful as you are... So I think Dave's theory hold merit.