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Thank you for sharing that Chuck! I think Danny did a really nice job with that video series - well worth the watch, Imo!
No Till Food Plots - So Easy
- Thread starter at1010
- Start date
Thank you for sharing that Chuck! I think Danny did a really nice job with that video series - well worth the watch, Imo!
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Well boys I got 10 acres in on Saturday and it rained Sunday afternoon.
Dew has been heavy and I suspect we’ll see decent germination.
I sprayed these plots off with
1qt per acre gly
Ams
Humic acid
And fish fert.
(I did an experiment with marestale and the above mix and I was shocked to see it killed - as it’s often thought to be RR. I believe between the high CEC of the humic acid allowing better absorption of the herbicide combined with the N sources it was able to stop the pathway that allows the marestale to photosynthesize).
I allowed the fields 5 hours of dry time. I then seeded my mix into the standing thatch.
I did an experiment where my buddy mowed off the thick rye areas on a few fields Sunday morning to aid in feeding the microbes. I also left several fields alone to compare results.
All in all - a great day the tractor and was grateful to finish up around 930pm. Thank goodness for headlights.
My mix - than you to MERIT seed for helping me balance this at the correct ratios.
Oats
Rye
Triticale
Wheat
Blansa clover
Buckwheat
Hairy vetch
Crimson clover
Daikon radish
Frosty berseem clover
Medium red clover
Purple top turnip
barley
fixation clover
kale
chicory
forage rape
Dew has been heavy and I suspect we’ll see decent germination.
I sprayed these plots off with
1qt per acre gly
Ams
Humic acid
And fish fert.
(I did an experiment with marestale and the above mix and I was shocked to see it killed - as it’s often thought to be RR. I believe between the high CEC of the humic acid allowing better absorption of the herbicide combined with the N sources it was able to stop the pathway that allows the marestale to photosynthesize).
I allowed the fields 5 hours of dry time. I then seeded my mix into the standing thatch.
I did an experiment where my buddy mowed off the thick rye areas on a few fields Sunday morning to aid in feeding the microbes. I also left several fields alone to compare results.
All in all - a great day the tractor and was grateful to finish up around 930pm. Thank goodness for headlights.
My mix - than you to MERIT seed for helping me balance this at the correct ratios.
Oats
Rye
Triticale
Wheat
Blansa clover
Buckwheat
Hairy vetch
Crimson clover
Daikon radish
Frosty berseem clover
Medium red clover
Purple top turnip
barley
fixation clover
kale
chicory
forage rape
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Big_Holla
Senior Member
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It is looking good for next week, I will keep fingers crossed for you! I need more rain. Assuming I get a bit more rain - I should be in good shape. Last year a very similar mix (I always change it up a bit cause I get bored) performed fantastically. I just need more rain! DANG!!
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Hey guys - I started making Tik Tok videos after several folks messaged me on various forms of social media and told me the content I was providing would be super useful on Tik Tok. I cannot promise it is good content but various people are enjoying it thus far, and it is short/concise. I hope you enjoy them !
Link 1 -This soil sucks - next steps?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1uMsvV/
Link 2 - Stand Placement 101
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1mEg11/
Link 3 - The RIGHT time to use a BUSH HOG to MAKE a food plot
Link 4 - No-Till Foodplot- what should I plant?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1mv1rj/
Link 5 - How to use a rangefinder to help you plant a food plot
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1mv8PF/
Link 1 -This soil sucks - next steps?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1uMsvV/
Link 2 - Stand Placement 101
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1mEg11/
Link 3 - The RIGHT time to use a BUSH HOG to MAKE a food plot
TikTok - Make Your Day
www.tiktok.com
Link 4 - No-Till Foodplot- what should I plant?
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1mv1rj/
Link 5 - How to use a rangefinder to help you plant a food plot
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1mv8PF/
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Thank you, Dustin - not sure why that happened. I edited and it should work now. Let me know if you have issues.
Big_Holla
Senior Member
We put our plots in over the weekend. All were no till - sprayed, seeded and fertilized next day and most we did not mow.
I have what I planted in each in my 2021/22 journal. Fingers crossed I will have success pics to share, or failure depending on the rain and heat.
I have what I planted in each in my 2021/22 journal. Fingers crossed I will have success pics to share, or failure depending on the rain and heat.
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Nitrogen, more specifically around plant uptake has always fascinated me.
Plants can uptake amino acids, these exist in the soil profile. N is a part of amino acids, and chains of amino acids make up proteins.
Think of the rhizophagey cycle where Dr. James White speaks about microbes (endophytes) leaving the plant in search of required nutrients. They go out and find where OM (sometimes also mineral deposits in soil) is breaking down through enzyme releases via mycorrhizal fungi or other microbial activity - and transferring the nutrients back to the plant. Hence the term “cycle”.
This is typically referred to as ”organic N” which is the N that’s tied up in organic matter materials. This N is made available through N mineralization (sometimes called ammonification) - microbes breaking down OM materials to make N available to plants.
Inorganic N - is also naturally in our systems both in ammonium and nitrate form. The nitrogen cycle explains this well.
This article is lengthy but super interesting. It talks about how plant's absorption of N is typically Ammonium, Amino Acids, and then nitrates - this may vary by plant species, somewhat. I also suspect the volatility of nitrate impacts absorption if and when more readily available N sources are present.
https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../j.1469-8137.2008...
Plants can uptake amino acids, these exist in the soil profile. N is a part of amino acids, and chains of amino acids make up proteins.
Think of the rhizophagey cycle where Dr. James White speaks about microbes (endophytes) leaving the plant in search of required nutrients. They go out and find where OM (sometimes also mineral deposits in soil) is breaking down through enzyme releases via mycorrhizal fungi or other microbial activity - and transferring the nutrients back to the plant. Hence the term “cycle”.
This is typically referred to as ”organic N” which is the N that’s tied up in organic matter materials. This N is made available through N mineralization (sometimes called ammonification) - microbes breaking down OM materials to make N available to plants.
Inorganic N - is also naturally in our systems both in ammonium and nitrate form. The nitrogen cycle explains this well.
This article is lengthy but super interesting. It talks about how plant's absorption of N is typically Ammonium, Amino Acids, and then nitrates - this may vary by plant species, somewhat. I also suspect the volatility of nitrate impacts absorption if and when more readily available N sources are present.
https://nph.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../j.1469-8137.2008...
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Guy calling me an idiot - might be true - but I had to share some insights below.
TikTok - Make Your Day
vm.tiktok.com
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http://regenerativeagriculturepodcast.com/the-fallacy-of...
Very interesting podcast on N and K - are we over fertilizing? I often see blind fert. recommendations shared on the internet. This is troubling to me, as fertilizer can have oxidizing impacts on our soil microbial life. We also must understand our base saturations as well as the CEC of the soils in which the fertilizers are being applied.
In my opinion, it is important to continue to learn from various sources and do not just take one opinion as gospel.
Get outside and Build Better Soil!
Very interesting podcast on N and K - are we over fertilizing? I often see blind fert. recommendations shared on the internet. This is troubling to me, as fertilizer can have oxidizing impacts on our soil microbial life. We also must understand our base saturations as well as the CEC of the soils in which the fertilizers are being applied.
In my opinion, it is important to continue to learn from various sources and do not just take one opinion as gospel.
Get outside and Build Better Soil!
I don't fertilize. How you like that for a "blind fert. recommendation shared on the internet"?!? 
IMO after 15 years of planting food plots, and somewhat in direct "opposition" to your passion and focus when it comes to plots, is that food plots have been made to be more complicated than they need to be. (Insert exception/qualifier supporting statement here)...
Obviously, this whole conversation starts with "what's your goal(s)?", then it proceeds to "what resources do you have?", and somewhere in there it includes an analysis of "what do the deer really need?", and so on. But for the guy who says "something is better than nothing" and "throw and grow" is an adequate approach, you can still get a decent food plot. I'm fortunate to have good soil on the farm, so I really only fertilize every 2-3 years and only do so lightly. It's another chore and more $ that I don't see a direct ROI on, but again I have different goals and opinions than most food plot experts. It's an interesting conversation for sure.
IMO after 15 years of planting food plots, and somewhat in direct "opposition" to your passion and focus when it comes to plots, is that food plots have been made to be more complicated than they need to be. (Insert exception/qualifier supporting statement here)...
Obviously, this whole conversation starts with "what's your goal(s)?", then it proceeds to "what resources do you have?", and somewhere in there it includes an analysis of "what do the deer really need?", and so on. But for the guy who says "something is better than nothing" and "throw and grow" is an adequate approach, you can still get a decent food plot. I'm fortunate to have good soil on the farm, so I really only fertilize every 2-3 years and only do so lightly. It's another chore and more $ that I don't see a direct ROI on, but again I have different goals and opinions than most food plot experts. It's an interesting conversation for sure.
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I don't fertilize. How you like that for a "blind fert. recommendation shared on the internet"?!?
IMO after 15 years of planting food plots, and somewhat in direct "opposition" to your passion and focus when it comes to plots, is that food plots have been made to be more complicated than they need to be. (Insert exception/qualifier supporting statement here)...
Obviously, this whole conversation starts with "what's your goal(s)?", then it proceeds to "what resources do you have?", and somewhere in there it includes an analysis of "what do the deer really need?", and so on. But for the guy who says "something is better than nothing" and "throw and grow" is an adequate approach, you can still get a decent food plot. I'm fortunate to have good soil on the farm, so I really only fertilize every 2-3 years and only do so lightly. It's another chore and more $ that I don't see a direct ROI on, but again I have different goals and opinions than most food plot experts. It's an interesting conversation for sure.
This is a GREAT take. I often tell people that I care about soil, because I am passionate about it and the science behind it. I am passionate about how it impacts my family, from the food I grow for them and I enjoy the science- it pushes my brain to areas I never thought I could comprehend, and I like that challenge.
I am not, however, blindly accepting that I am having a major impact on my deer herd, even with planting 20 acres a year (10 acres 2x per year), in an area with limiting food (no ag around). If I want to make an impact on my deer herd, I shoot does and fire my chainsaw.....this is another topic for another day.
From a fertilization standpoint, there is a lot of science that would back up the hypothesis that "less is more" - specifically with pasture/food plot type crops. Liebig's "Law of the minimum" is an important consideration, but what about the "law of the maximum" - there are antagonistic relationships in the soil, which we must be cognizant of before we just blindly add product X, Y, Z.
For example - calcium drives MG in the soil, this is great if your soils are tight (MG tightens up the soil) and the base saturation of CA is below 60-70%. However, if you add lime (dolomitic) that has both, you may change the PH bot not have a positive impact on the soil structure, due to the antagonistic relationships between CA and MG. Similarly, over-fertilization of N, can drive CA out of the soil- not only as a pollutant but also a waste of money and further hurting the structure of the soil.
So from your perspective, of not fertilizing - why is that possible?
Well, without me looking at a soil test,I could make some assumptions based on my knowledge of you @bowhunter1023 and the location of your farm.
1. You probably have a CEC of 14+ - this is good soil with the ability to bank a lot of nutrients, although at times you may argue it is more clay than you'd like, in certain spots.
2. Because of this CEC, we are able to have a lot of stored nutrients (cations -calcium, mg, k, NA)
3. We are often plotting in areas that have not been overly worked heavily (40+ years) and then oxidized from tillage, over-fertilization, etc.
4. You purposely and/or coincidently, have been planting legumes, grains, and brassicas. These inherently are attractive to whitetail but simultaneously are also great for the soil profile. These are fixing atmospheric N, mining nutrients, establishing fungi connections, enzymes are releasing those bound up minerals in the soil, that are being taken up by microbes, and released again as the plant dies or a deer eats/poops it out onto the field as a form of OM.
I share an absurd amount of information (only a portion of which I digest) to try to inform others so they can make informed decisions based on research and facts - vs. the marketing BS that is pumped into the DEER WORLD.
I have not used fertilizer on my plots in 3-4+ years - I strongly believe that we often don't need to for deer plots.
I have it on some newer plots, as I am working to balance base saturations of 60-70% CA, 10MG, 5%K - which then optimizes plant uptake and photosynthetic capabilities thereafter.
I share all of this to say, that many of us are blessed with our soil profiles in Ohio. However, if we were in Michigan or GA - it would be different and the attention to detail would be far more important be it plots, gardens, or farms.
PS - I am not anti fertilizer, tillage, pro-cover crop only, etc. I think all of these things are WELL worth considering with moderation.
All in all, we can use some or none of this information but if you are like me and care about money, soil health, nutrient density for the food you eat, and the deer consume, it might be of interest to you.
Always enjoy your take Jesse - I cannot emphasize the importance of goals and align these goals with one's passion. So so so important as a landowner. I believe if our only goal is Booners, we will be let down more times than not. If our goals are healthy soil - now that is something I can control!!
Thank you all!
AT
My food plot goals are pretty simple:
- First and foremost, I plant them for me. It’s my favorite deer chore and I’m certain they’re a “net positive” for our farm.
- Make smart seed choices based on research and “most recent information” in regards to area ag offerings.
- Share my experiences with TOOville so others can learn from a Regular Joe with no agenda.
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Yes sir. That is all it is about, and thank you for the kind words! I truly hope that I come across here as informative and helpful - as that is my goal.
I absolutely love your three steps. Although I have added a TON of content here, for those who are interested . I think that the overall process in and of itself is and can be so easy. We don't need someone to sell us a fancy seed or spray that will be a miracle fix.
We just need a few solid steps, a decent quality seed/mix, and some moisture!
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Much of this follows along with the same idea as balancing soil nutrient loads, reducing salt loads onto the soil, using pesticides only when needed, and increasing our healthy microbe populations to help translate to better soil and healthier plants.
Well worth the watch!
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Here is one of several plots on the farm this year. I plant around 20 acres a year (10 acres 2X, maybe more). However, if I only had the time to plant once a year, this would be my go-to method.
1. Spray GLY
2. Go back to the house, eat some lunch, let GLY dry.
3. Seed into the standing green veg.
4. Wait/pray for rain
5. Optional - this particular plot I bush-hogged off the next day to see if I noticed any major difference between mowing off the sprayed thatch vs. just letting it fall. So far, I am not sold on needing to bush hog it off, but it sure is fun to run the bug hog!
I make very complex mixes because I like the soil science behind it all. However, if I could just recommend a solid mix it would be as follows.
1. Rye grain
2. Oats
3. turnip
4. rape
5. radish
6. medium red clover
7. crimson clover
This mix, planted in this way, will feed deer all year. And no, you don't need to separate your brassicas and grains - you do need to ensure that you are seeding the correct % per acre. Merit Seed or any other reputable seed mill will be able to assist you with fine-tuning the lbs per acre.
As always hope this helps.
1. Spray GLY
2. Go back to the house, eat some lunch, let GLY dry.
3. Seed into the standing green veg.
4. Wait/pray for rain
5. Optional - this particular plot I bush-hogged off the next day to see if I noticed any major difference between mowing off the sprayed thatch vs. just letting it fall. So far, I am not sold on needing to bush hog it off, but it sure is fun to run the bug hog!
I make very complex mixes because I like the soil science behind it all. However, if I could just recommend a solid mix it would be as follows.
1. Rye grain
2. Oats
3. turnip
4. rape
5. radish
6. medium red clover
7. crimson clover
This mix, planted in this way, will feed deer all year. And no, you don't need to separate your brassicas and grains - you do need to ensure that you are seeding the correct % per acre. Merit Seed or any other reputable seed mill will be able to assist you with fine-tuning the lbs per acre.
As always hope this helps.
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What is up brother!
I have been great, been hunting a big deer that is about got me ready to quit hunting, lol!
As for the soil health/science aspect, I am finishing up a really great book from Neil Kinsey that I would highly recommend "Hands-on Agronomy" - this book is fascinating and has opened my eyes to the benefits of balancing your base saturations in the soil before all else. Once I finish it and process it a bit more - I will share a picture and brief write-up.
Another great resource for folks is a "radio show" - they have it offered in podcasts as well, which is AG PhD Radio. This is geared towards farmers, yields, etc. but I still get a lot out of the soil functionality discussions - like most things take a little, leave the rest!
Lastly, my boy just turned 4 months old can't quite draw a bow yet but I think by 5 months he ought to be able, lol! All joking aside - all is good! I just have been super busy and have not gained any information additionally worth sharing recently. Thank you for checking in my man!