- 5,248
- 159
Thank you so much, buddy! You reaching out throughout the last few months to check in has truly meant a lot! I am so excited to be a daddy!
No Till Food Plots - So Easy
- Thread starter at1010
- Start date
Thank you so much, buddy! You reaching out throughout the last few months to check in has truly meant a lot! I am so excited to be a daddy!
- 5,248
- 159
Well, Boys, it is that time again! I wanted to share my rough draft of the mix I will use going into fall/winter.
I will most likely terminate the crop that is there now with herbicide.
I believe in spraying, let it dry, then seed. GLY is a chelating agent and can bind up macro and micronutrients. I am not concerned with the results on soil microbiology - as the science is VERY contradictory in its ability to bind up nutrients for a defined duration.
In some cases, I have heard fungi actually had a positive impact after GLY applications (mycorrhizae webinar via Green Cover). I would like to get away from herbicide, but I just don't have the means to at the moment. I am not pro or anti herbicide, I believe it is a GREAT tool in the box and should be used when needed but shouldn't be used frivolously.
All that to say, my suggestion would be to always let the spray dry before seeding. Because seed has endophytes (or should) on them, and GLY is a chelating agent, it seems to harm germination (seeds microbiome is far more sensitive than the entire soil microbiome, or so it seems via observational analysis). Now, if you have a drill or planter - this is not an issue. However, I have seen this first hand and had a buddy of mine do a side-by-side comparison of WR in a pot of soil - one sprayed, one just watered. The sprayed seed took FAR longer to germinate.
Below is my mix, the goal is to add N to eat up the C, build the soil, and create enough C-creating crops for next year's thatch! And so goes the cycle! Build better soil!
1. Crimson Clover (Dixie) - OMRI Inoculated
2. Red Clover (Medium Red) - OMRI Inoculated
3. Hairy Vetch (Purple Bounty) - Uncoated
4. Alfalfa (Common) - Inoculated
5. Fixation Balansa Clover -Nitro Coat OMRI
6. Berseem Clover (Frosty) - OMRI Coated
7. Cereal Rye (Elbon)
8. Winter Wheat (Gore Soft Red) - Beardless
9. Winter Triticale: SY TF 813
10. Winter Oats (Bob)
11. Purple Top Turnip: VNS
12. Smart Radish
13. Rapeseed (Trophy)
14. Buckwheat (Mancan)
15. Chicory (Endure)
16. Barley
17. Kale
I will most likely terminate the crop that is there now with herbicide.
I believe in spraying, let it dry, then seed. GLY is a chelating agent and can bind up macro and micronutrients. I am not concerned with the results on soil microbiology - as the science is VERY contradictory in its ability to bind up nutrients for a defined duration.
In some cases, I have heard fungi actually had a positive impact after GLY applications (mycorrhizae webinar via Green Cover). I would like to get away from herbicide, but I just don't have the means to at the moment. I am not pro or anti herbicide, I believe it is a GREAT tool in the box and should be used when needed but shouldn't be used frivolously.
All that to say, my suggestion would be to always let the spray dry before seeding. Because seed has endophytes (or should) on them, and GLY is a chelating agent, it seems to harm germination (seeds microbiome is far more sensitive than the entire soil microbiome, or so it seems via observational analysis). Now, if you have a drill or planter - this is not an issue. However, I have seen this first hand and had a buddy of mine do a side-by-side comparison of WR in a pot of soil - one sprayed, one just watered. The sprayed seed took FAR longer to germinate.
Below is my mix, the goal is to add N to eat up the C, build the soil, and create enough C-creating crops for next year's thatch! And so goes the cycle! Build better soil!
1. Crimson Clover (Dixie) - OMRI Inoculated
2. Red Clover (Medium Red) - OMRI Inoculated
3. Hairy Vetch (Purple Bounty) - Uncoated
4. Alfalfa (Common) - Inoculated
5. Fixation Balansa Clover -Nitro Coat OMRI
6. Berseem Clover (Frosty) - OMRI Coated
7. Cereal Rye (Elbon)
8. Winter Wheat (Gore Soft Red) - Beardless
9. Winter Triticale: SY TF 813
10. Winter Oats (Bob)
11. Purple Top Turnip: VNS
12. Smart Radish
13. Rapeseed (Trophy)
14. Buckwheat (Mancan)
15. Chicory (Endure)
16. Barley
17. Kale
tpierce
Junior Member
Al, will you till the soil prior to seeding? Or do you just throw it down?
- 5,248
- 159
Great question - I do not till at all! I do all of this "NO TILL" - someday I am going to buy a drill or planter (no-till coulter, row cleaners, seed firmers) that I will drill right into the thatch before termination.
Tillage is something that I see very little to no merit in doing. It breaks up soil aggregation, burns up OM, reducing water infiltration, can create compaction, and is very damaging to mycorrhizal fungi.
Now large-scale farming operations (this is changing rapidly) and small Gardens, tillage works because we can amend the soil via thatch, compost, synthetics, etc.
If you did want to till, my suggestion - do it very lightly, till 1-2inches of soil. This will reduce the negative impacts of tillage and will increase your seed germination rate. I increase the seeding rate slightly - I take broadcast rate and increase 25% roughly and as you go back through this thread, you will see some of the best food plots I ever created with minimal costs in fuel and no costs in FERT.
I hope this helps, thank you for following along - ask me questions anytime! Always remember, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat!
AT
Last edited:
Big_Holla
Senior Member
Also curious if all of your plots will have all of those seeds in them or a combination of several for different locations?
- 5,248
- 159
This is the mix that will be per acre. So each plot will have this mixed up, in a balanced mix per species (thanks to John at Merit for the help there), and used on every single plot. I do have a few smaller plots that I may remove some of the larger seeds as I just wont have the thatch to get them established but overall, this or some variation thereof - will be put down.
- 5,248
- 159
Garden update:
1. How to plant tomatoes with a screwdriver
2. Using Mychorizzae fungi to innoculate my tomato seedlings
3. Thatch update, and how/why I can tell the garden is allow water to infiltrate
Build Better Soil!
- 5,248
- 159
Are we wasting money on fertilizer? Are we mis judging how successful we are solely based on an OM%?!
Testing is great but in my opinion we need to also focus on observations of the plant and soil aggregation.
See below for more information:
Testing is great but in my opinion we need to also focus on observations of the plant and soil aggregation.
See below for more information:
What's your thoughts on no till with buckwheat given it's recommended planting depth? It's tough getting my dad to till ground and you may be converting me to no till for my biggest plot, which could get bigger if I didn't need to till. Trying to wrap my head around timing and how to effectively wipe the slate clean.
- 5,248
- 159
Brother - that’s one of reasons as to what converted me, being time and acreage. I realized if I wanted to be in game around my neighborhood, food was the most limiting factor and I needed more of it. I didn’t have time to till more ground, I had to find another way!
As for buckwheat, easy to grow buddy! Actually people told me that you needed perfect seed to soil contact, years ago. I started seeding via broadcast bag spreader directly into standing clover. Be it, rye grain or buckwheat (in spring) - I had great success, relative to my goals.
- 5,248
- 159
Contd.
I’ll leave you with this - from a soil health perspective, a monoculture of buckwheat doesn’t make much sense. I know it’s promoted a lot but it’s a fairly low CtoN plant (take some mature BW you can crush it in your hands easy), itself it won’t fix N, it’s know to make P available but really what it does is release root exudates that trigger enzyme releases from the mycorrhizal network, that make P soluble/available - this only works if system is functioning, etc. To my last point it’s known as a “smother crop” however, gly is used to terminate in most cases, and in functioning system a low CtoN crop will be consumed rapidly - so I don’t see it truly smothering much, more so than any thatch layer does or would, specifically in fall plantings (inherently less weed competition) and with using a herbicide (true another agent, lol).
So if you want to do no till on buckwheat-
1. Spraying a thatch will help or spread and mow - won’t be clean but does work or just spread heavily into area and pray foe rain!
2. Add other crops - legume, spring oats, sunflowers, rape - something.
As always, just my opinion and lots of ways to skin a cat but hopefully there is something useful there for ya.
AT
I’ll leave you with this - from a soil health perspective, a monoculture of buckwheat doesn’t make much sense. I know it’s promoted a lot but it’s a fairly low CtoN plant (take some mature BW you can crush it in your hands easy), itself it won’t fix N, it’s know to make P available but really what it does is release root exudates that trigger enzyme releases from the mycorrhizal network, that make P soluble/available - this only works if system is functioning, etc. To my last point it’s known as a “smother crop” however, gly is used to terminate in most cases, and in functioning system a low CtoN crop will be consumed rapidly - so I don’t see it truly smothering much, more so than any thatch layer does or would, specifically in fall plantings (inherently less weed competition) and with using a herbicide (true another agent, lol).
So if you want to do no till on buckwheat-
1. Spraying a thatch will help or spread and mow - won’t be clean but does work or just spread heavily into area and pray foe rain!
2. Add other crops - legume, spring oats, sunflowers, rape - something.
As always, just my opinion and lots of ways to skin a cat but hopefully there is something useful there for ya.
AT
- 5,248
- 159
Dad was at farm this weekend and snapped this pic for me of my favorite wildlife pasture.
At first glance it doesn’t look like a perfect foodplot but at a closer inspection we can see the diversity in this field, which for me is a huge win.
As I zoom in, not only do I see a variety of seeds I planted, but also good native seeds, such as ragweed and milkweed. I see young sunflowers and what appears to be buckwheat growing between that layers of green mulch.
Most importantly, I see a lot of GREEN growing plants. This means that photosynthesis is occurring, which means that root exudation is occurring, further feeding the microbes, that’ll create better soil aggregation, more nutrient availability, better fungal communities, etc.
Older grains are dying off and the carbon sources will be broken down by the soil microbes, further driving other parts of the symbiotic system.
Diversity is king! Build better soil!
At first glance it doesn’t look like a perfect foodplot but at a closer inspection we can see the diversity in this field, which for me is a huge win.
As I zoom in, not only do I see a variety of seeds I planted, but also good native seeds, such as ragweed and milkweed. I see young sunflowers and what appears to be buckwheat growing between that layers of green mulch.
Most importantly, I see a lot of GREEN growing plants. This means that photosynthesis is occurring, which means that root exudation is occurring, further feeding the microbes, that’ll create better soil aggregation, more nutrient availability, better fungal communities, etc.
Older grains are dying off and the carbon sources will be broken down by the soil microbes, further driving other parts of the symbiotic system.
Diversity is king! Build better soil!
- 5,248
- 159
A Soil Owners Manual -
Explaining the important balance between carbon and nitrogen for the microbial diet.
As you increase your microbial populations in the soil, the faster they’ll break down thatch.
We must take this information into consideration when balancing cover crops to wildlife pasture mixes, if our goal is to continue to create an optimal environment for microbes to thrive.
Last edited:
- 5,248
- 159
- 5,248
- 159
Dave, always great to hear from you buddy - I think we covered this once before here but I am always happy to share my experiences.
First off, no I don't have quantitative data that I have tracked of bees, butterflies, etc. Observationally, I can say that I see more deer, turkey, rabbits, and predators (correlation between predator and prey increases), and bees. When I walk these fields you can hear the bees buzzing.
I will 100% refuse to sit here and tell you or anyone that if you increase the soil health on your farm, you are going to shoot a booner, increase wildlife populations, etc. There are just simply far too many variables involved in an animal's daily life for me to make that type of claim.
What I can say, with a fairly strong sense of certainty, is that I am adding a high-quality food source, for bees to bucks. I am seeing more wildlife visually and I am reducing the stress on the wildlife by offering them a higher nutrient-dense food source.
All of that to say, this is 1 part of the puzzle. One of the main keys to soil health is diversity. This thread is hyper-focused on the diversity within a soils microbiome. However, if we talk about wildlife, the common denominator for success - is diversity. Diversity in stages of successional habitat (for deer and game birds, larger % in secondary succession is best), Diversity in grasslands/prairies (leave the bush hog in the barn until July), diversity in plant species on the landscape, and reduction of invasive species dominance. ETC.
If we do all these things, and then focus on the microcosms of each specific category thereafter - both us and the wildlife are bound to find success.
Nothing happens overnight, but everything happens one way or another.
AT
I believe we touched on it for the deer. Thanks for the response! Keep on keeping on.
Reason I was asking was because I know a group of people trying to return large areas back to native habitat. I have watched the area fluctuate a great deal. Turkeys used to be thick as flies, now there's hardly any. I watched deer do the same. Squirrel are also the same. Food is everywhere with a mix of big timber and CRP you would think the place would be crawling with every kind of wildlife...but it isn't. Only thing I can think of is that you can't go out there without seeing birds of prey.
Reason I was asking was because I know a group of people trying to return large areas back to native habitat. I have watched the area fluctuate a great deal. Turkeys used to be thick as flies, now there's hardly any. I watched deer do the same. Squirrel are also the same. Food is everywhere with a mix of big timber and CRP you would think the place would be crawling with every kind of wildlife...but it isn't. Only thing I can think of is that you can't go out there without seeing birds of prey.
Last edited: