To many deer odnr
- Thread starter Wiley E Coyote
- Start date
at1010
*Supporting Member*
- 5,244
- 159
Spot on. So many guys want to talk about deer genetics and potential without any knowledge of the topic. I have family that I love having come hunt with me - I’d still support a draw system or higher cost for tags.
I also think it’s got to be insane rhat guys from out of state snag up 10000s of acres of land, then sell hunts on them to residents. Look at some of the FB groups that involve leases. Half of them are promoted by folks from another state.
I know you aren’t anti NR and either am I. But there does come a point where some of this is just insane.
I don’t have a dog in this fight other than empathizing with my fellow Ohioans who’ve lost spots or even opportunities to lease a spot because someone from out of state paid for 5000 acres and then sell hunts on.
Big_Holla
Senior Member
I guess I don't get it. On one hand many are saying deer numbers are in the dumps because of NR hunters. Yet those same NR hunters rarely shoot a second deer and IF they shoot any buck they are likely done for the year. They lease up all the land in Ohio for that one buck, no others get shot....yet the deer numbers are in the shitter. And it is all the NR hunter's fault. Yet I see on a daily basis resident hunters talking about filling all their tags, well because the ODNR said it's OK. Let's not get started on the whole Amish conversation.....again they're.....residents. What am I missing??
- 25,126
- 261
Big_Holla
Senior Member
- 25,126
- 261
What kind of potential does Michigan hold, Chuck? I’d say it’s pretty darn good if there wasn’t a culture of killing a spike on November 15, and a forky a week later. Not implicating you here, just pointing out the obvious, again.
at1010
*Supporting Member*
- 5,244
- 159
I don’t think anyone was trying to blame NR.
I believe it just comes down to supply and demand. Ohio is a tremendously good big buck state. We are cheap compared to other states. We have stayed super inexpensive and there is a ton of leased up ground.
I’ve been on the opposite side of coin from
Most guys specific to my situation and spots about deer numbers so there I think you bring up some valid points.
However - I think that’s why this argument is so fluid. You have large area of dpsm being high due to leased up ground and lack of pressure. You then force those guys who use to hunt those spots hunting high pressure farms or public - skewing their perception of deer populations.
I think it is only fair that if someone is leasing more than 100 acres in Ohio, is a NR and then is turning around and selling additional leases/hunts - there ought to be some type of increased costs associated with the relatively cheap resource they are exploiting. Be it higher costs for tags, draw system, etc.
atleast that’s my opinion on the matter. Not sure if others agree or not. At no point is this an anti NR post. Just simply an economic decision and mgt decision from the ODNR.
Bigcountry40
Member
- 4,730
- 127
Best thing I've read in a while
Big_Holla
Senior Member
The fact that there is leased land shows the landowner has decided they needed income from their own property. I will never find fault in that and yes the NR willing to pay such fees sucks for the hunting guy who lost it but it sure helps the guy who owns it, not to mention the motel, the restaurant, party store, etc.. Does it put some properties into a tailspin where there are deer everywhere because the NR leasing hunter is only going to shoot one big buck (or in some cases any buck), it would seem it should. Neighboring properties would definitely benefit from that. Does all of this affect hunter recruitment?? That's the big question isn't it?? Yeah it's easy to blame the guy down the road who leases his property to someone from out of town, a property most wouldn't ever hunt anyway. Sure, access can be frustrating but there are plenty of people who are successful on public land. So I don't think that is really the reason for declining numbers. It's easy to blame so many other things related to actual hunting, but the fact is there are a million other things pulling those kids and potential hunters elsewhere and it isn't at all hunting related.
The problem in Michigan certainly isn't NR hunters, it is the every day resident (sound familiar?) who has 2 buck tags and a shitload of antlerless (key word) tags that they can fill at leisure, not to mention gun seasons that basically run from mid November through the end of December. In Michigan that hunter not only can kill that small buck but he can keep hunting to fill that second buck tag. Some efforts have been made in places in Michigan where they are turning into great areas for hunting big bucks. Having antler point restrictions in the NE lower has made that area a destination. As well as southern Michigan due to people forming Co-Ops, people putting in the effort to work with neighbors, not waiting for the DNR. The DNR has anter point restrictions on most second buck tags now as well, a minor concession to going to a single buck tag. In the end though Michigan's problems are a result of the decisions made by residents, the "culture of killing" the first good buck and filling the second tag when they got the opportunity.
The thing that makes Ohio different from states like Michigan is that single buck tag. I think that is the one thing most forget how important that is for your quality. I look at it differently when it comes to Ohio, when that guy on the neighboring property kills that small buck he is done for the year killing bucks. Heck I'd be glad if that hunter did it every year and early in the season because those older deer get a pass from him after that. Getting to the point I am making, you are responsible for what you do on your own piece of ground. The ODNR places laws on a broad scale for people to abide by but that doesn't mean you fill every tag you are allowed to if you see your property is in decline. Can you blame the neighbors, the guy who leased the land down the road or the Amish for the current state your property is in? Perhaps it all is having an effect. Maybe it's time landowners got together and talked about the future and try to solve it on a small scale before trying to kill the beast. It's easy to blame everything on the NR when in my opinion that NR hunter is doing way less damage to hunting in Ohio than our own local hunters. Even the guy that leases.
The problem in Michigan certainly isn't NR hunters, it is the every day resident (sound familiar?) who has 2 buck tags and a shitload of antlerless (key word) tags that they can fill at leisure, not to mention gun seasons that basically run from mid November through the end of December. In Michigan that hunter not only can kill that small buck but he can keep hunting to fill that second buck tag. Some efforts have been made in places in Michigan where they are turning into great areas for hunting big bucks. Having antler point restrictions in the NE lower has made that area a destination. As well as southern Michigan due to people forming Co-Ops, people putting in the effort to work with neighbors, not waiting for the DNR. The DNR has anter point restrictions on most second buck tags now as well, a minor concession to going to a single buck tag. In the end though Michigan's problems are a result of the decisions made by residents, the "culture of killing" the first good buck and filling the second tag when they got the opportunity.
The thing that makes Ohio different from states like Michigan is that single buck tag. I think that is the one thing most forget how important that is for your quality. I look at it differently when it comes to Ohio, when that guy on the neighboring property kills that small buck he is done for the year killing bucks. Heck I'd be glad if that hunter did it every year and early in the season because those older deer get a pass from him after that. Getting to the point I am making, you are responsible for what you do on your own piece of ground. The ODNR places laws on a broad scale for people to abide by but that doesn't mean you fill every tag you are allowed to if you see your property is in decline. Can you blame the neighbors, the guy who leased the land down the road or the Amish for the current state your property is in? Perhaps it all is having an effect. Maybe it's time landowners got together and talked about the future and try to solve it on a small scale before trying to kill the beast. It's easy to blame everything on the NR when in my opinion that NR hunter is doing way less damage to hunting in Ohio than our own local hunters. Even the guy that leases.
Ban crossbows? Why? Should I give up hunting because I can't pull a bow back? You want me to post the X-rays of my fucking shoulders? Maybe stop showing pictures of big bucks on a public forum takin by a drone. I can't wait till they ban those mother fuckers lol
@giles wanna go hang out in a coyote den until everyone gets their panties out of the twist they are in?
- 39,067
- 274
Bigcountry40
Member
- 4,730
- 127
While @Dannmann801 and I drove to New Jersey, l explained my dissertation of how the "hunting industry" has ruined hunting and why the recruitment of new hunters outside of families already engaging is no longer necessary and why non profit such as Whitetails unlimited are a complete scam. I don't think I have the energy to present it again.This thread is getting good now.
Bigcountry40
Member
- 4,730
- 127
U can see his health was on the downslide, probably wouldn't of made it through the winter!@brock ratcliff
6.5 year old public land cull buck shot by a Non-resident with a crossbow..
View attachment 186703
- 25,126
- 261
This is the pic he sent me as an example of a “cull”. I told him he should probably hold off for four or five years just on the off chance he is wrong.
lol you win this thread!@brock ratcliff
6.5 year old public land cull buck shot by a Non-resident with a crossbow.
View attachment 186703
The idea of a "cull" buck is the biggest bunch of bullshit in the hunting community
