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Question for you dwindling deer number people!

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
1
75
ohio
#1
Everyone seems to be in a uproar about deer numbers. If in your eyes the deer herd is to small, what are your thoughts on the grouse population?

I would be willing to bet that there are not even a 1/4 the number of grouse in the state of ohio as there are deer. YEt no one seems to care about them?? Why is that?

Here is another question for you to ponder. Grouse are obviously at a shitty level. Why is there still a season? I am not everywhere in ohio, but I am pretty sure the numbers are shitty every where. Im sure there are pockets of birds here and there. Although, I am far more concerned about the grouse poulations than I am the deer herd!
 

deerjunkie

Junior Member
959
3
0
Canton, Ohio
#2
Everyone seems to be in a uproar about deer numbers. If in your eyes the deer herd is to small, what are your thoughts on the grouse population?

I would be willing to bet that there are not even a 1/4 the number of grouse in the state of ohio as there are deer. YEt no one seems to care about them?? Why is that?Here is another question for you to ponder. Grouse are obviously at a shitty level. Why is there still a season? I am not everywhere in ohio, but I am pretty sure the numbers are shitty every where. Im sure there are pockets of birds here and there. Although, I am far more concerned about the grouse poulations than I am the deer herd!
Thats because grouse don't have antlers...
 

Schu72

Well-Known Member
3,707
687
97
Streetsboro
#3
I haven't seen one in years. I've heard a few drum, but haven't laid eyes on one. We used to see them every deer season and hunted them a good bit when I was in high school. Habitat has changed too much.

Upland bird hunting generates very little revenue...it's all about the Benjamins.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
32,177
11,077
201
#4
Well Kaiser... I guess for the same reason I don't care about some bloated African kid that needs a fly swatter. If that concerns you, then start bitching about it and raise awareness about the fly swatter shortage in Africa. I don't have, nor want to have, a dog in that fight.

If you want to hunt woods grouse let me know. We can head down to my place in vinton.. We have woods groouse that have been making a comeback. I don't care. Shoot them all. But if you're that concerned about their numbers maybe we should practice some of that "shoot less than the limit" theory I hear many tout with deer limits... Feel free to bring the dog. When we flush them well just yell BANG BANG BANG.
 

cotty16

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
#5
I haven't seen one in years. I've heard a few drum, but haven't laid eyes on one. We used to see them every deer season and hunted them a good bit when I was in high school. Habitat has changed too much.

Upland bird hunting generates very little revenue...it's all about the Benjamins.
X2

All I hear is the drummin'. Very little TOO.
I don't even bother grouse hunting anymore. It's a shame.

TOO many yotes?
Bad habitat? It's good where I am.
Food shortage?

Who knows.
 
#6
Used to hunt grouse. Found some good areas during past turkey seasons. The problem is access land is even too limited to hunt them anymore. It is not for lack of birds just huntable land that all the deer hunters lease up.
Quail and pheasent are stockable but are getting less and less attention also.
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
1
75
ohio
#8
Well Kaiser... I guess for the same reason I don't care about some bloated African kid that needs a fly swatter. If that concerns you, then start bitching about it and raise awareness about the fly swatter shortage in Africa. I don't have, nor want to have, a dog in that fight.

If you want to hunt woods grouse let me know. We can head down to my place in vinton.. We have woods groouse that have been making a comeback. I don't care. Shoot them all. But if you're that concerned about their numbers maybe we should practice some of that "shoot less than the limit" theory I hear many tout with deer limits... Feel free to bring the dog. When we flush them well just yell BANG BANG BANG.
I could care less about African people! You should know that!rotflmao

I have had the opportunity to shoot a grouse or two in the last 3 years. But I wont, for just that reaso! I cant see shooting one when there are hardly any around! If I would shoot one, then that means that is one less bird to breed. My luck there would only be two in the area and the other wouldnt have a mate! So techincaly, I guess I have been practicing that method of shooting less than the bag limit! If of course none is a number!

I dont buy the theory of less habitat, no harm meant Schu. The reason I say this there are tons of places that have went unchanged that used to be full of grouse, now there are none! My house as an example. 10 years ago I could go behind my house and flush 4 or 5 different birds in a particular area of woods. This was bfore I was very proficient with a shotgun. I only have ever killed one! Yet with every year there were less and less. Yet there was no one up there hunting them.:smiley_chinrub: I also know of two or three other areas locally that were the same way!

THere is one theory that I have, and I will stand by it until proven otherwise! If someone could prove me otherwise I would be happy to listen, because atleast it would give me a sense on comfort on the issue. About the time of decline there was a incline in one particular animal. That animal being turkeys! Does anyone else think this is true?

Joe, I want to and probably will take you up on that. For trade I will invite you up for a deer whackin!!! Seem fair????
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
1
75
ohio
#9
Why not pheasants Kaiser? Don't you care about wild pheasants?
I do care abotu pheasants. Although, I will agree with the decline in habitat theory for them. Farmers are a lot more efficient and clean with their farming habits. There are not nearly as many brushy fence rows or grown up fields any more. Without these, pheasants have no refuge from hawks and owls. Not to mention a dramatic increase in yotes!
 

Schu72

Well-Known Member
3,707
687
97
Streetsboro
#10
I have heard the turkey argument as well and the grouse decline does coincide with the turkey explosion in Belmont county. However, the woodlots have matured a great deal over the last 20 years with minimal timbering. Maturing forest, turkeys, coyotes...all three, take your pick.
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
1
75
ohio
#11
I have heard the turkey argument as well and the grouse decline does coincide with the turkey explosion in Belmont county. However, the woodlots have matured a great deal over the last 20 years with minimal timbering. Maturing forest, turkeys, coyotes...all three, take your pick.
Ill agree to an extent! But what seems odd is that there was multiple timbering projects around my house! In the last 12 years there has been 3 timbering sessions! Which is what I find odd, that should help a ton!!!!!!!
 
#13
I know of a few places with huntable populations of pheasent but again access is next to impossible.
Grouse and woodcocks are old growth birds, southern ohio is timbered to death = Less birds.

Grouse are also a cycle type bird meaning there can be an abundance for several years and then almost dissapear. Weather, pesticides and predation are all factors. I would be more worried about coon that yotes with grouse, damn egg suckers.
A large population of coon will be hard on the grouse population.
 

RedCloud

Super Moderator
Super Mod
16,670
1,705
142
Somewhere OHIO
#14
I haven't seen a grouse around here in 20+ years. I'm not sure where they went but they took the pheasant with them from what I hear coming from the old timers here. The only place I see pheasants on a regular basis is near the pheasant farms that have escapes or the coon hunters club where they release some every year. As far as turkey goes we didn't have any or very very few around here until about 12-13 years ago. Even now they are well dispersed and low numbers around my hunting areas.

If I had to take a guess for the reasons of decline I would have to say
1) Birds of pray
2) raccoons / possums
3) cats ( I seen more cats in the woods this past deer season then I did deer from my stands)
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
32,177
11,077
201
#15
I'm no wildlife biologists but i think the primary reason for what we assume to be declining grouse numbers was you guess it..... The abundance of acorns.. The grouse only had to lay in the cover with their mouths open waiting for an acorn to drop in their mouth like a baby chick... They moved less resulting in less scent for dogs and staying hidden in cover...

What's that you ask? What about last year??? Well see that was due to a lack of acorns.. The Grouse were concentrated in pockets that nobody stumbled upon because the rarest or rare acorns grew there.. As a result hunters and dogs couldn't find this covey of shoulder to shoulder birds... Don't believe me?? We'll, that's why less raccoons got killed on the roads this year, because the raccoons didn't have to travel as far this year to locate the ginormous coveys like last year..

Also.. Weather played a role in your ability to locate the ample bird population.. This year we had bad weather which resulted in many hunters staying home sipping hot coco and watching Oprah and leaving their expensive rain gear hanging in the garage.. They only bought that for show anyway... What's that you say? We used the same excuse last year yet killed more deer than this year? We'll yeah! Duh! It worked then too..


So... You see Kaiser... I'm not a State Wildlife biologist.. But I do learn... There is actually a overpopulation of grouse in the state. You just can't find them because your hunting the wrong property... Orrrrrrrr.... Maybe every bird dog in the state failed to adapt to the change in acorn production and weather patterns...


So.. We're going to keep the grouse limit the same next year and continue our goal of reducing the grouse overpopulation problem in Ohio.. Ohio continues to provide exceptional opportunities for grouse hunters with the availability of tags so cheap they're nonexistent.
 
#17
I'm no wildlife biologists but i think the primary reason for what we assume to be declining grouse numbers was you guess it..... The abundance of acorns.. The grouse only had to lay in the cover with their mouths open waiting for an acorn to drop in their mouth like a baby chick... They moved less resulting in less scent for dogs and staying hidden in cover...

What's that you ask? What about last year??? Well see that was due to a lack of acorns.. The Grouse were concentrated in pockets that nobody stumbled upon because the rarest or rare acorns grew there.. As a result hunters and dogs couldn't find this covey of shoulder to shoulder birds... Don't believe me?? We'll, that's why less raccoons got killed on the roads this year, because the raccoons didn't have to travel as far this year to locate the ginormous coveys like last year..

Also.. Weather played a role in your ability to locate the ample bird population.. This year we had bad weather which resulted in many hunters staying home sipping hot coco and watching Oprah and leaving their expensive rain gear hanging in the garage.. They only bought that for show anyway... What's that you say? We used the same excuse last year yet killed more deer than this year? We'll yeah! Duh! It worked then too..


So... You see Kaiser... I'm not a State Wildlife biologist.. But I do learn... There is actually a overpopulation of grouse in the state. You just can't find them because your hunting the wrong property... Orrrrrrrr.... Maybe every bird dog in the state failed to adapt to the change in acorn production and weather patterns...


So.. We're going to keep the grouse limit the same next year and continue our goal of reducing the grouse overpopulation problem in Ohio.. Ohio continues to provide exceptional opportunities for grouse hunters with the availability of tags so cheap they're nonexistent.
lmaorotflmao
 

Milo

Tatonka guide.
7,806
354
110
#18
I would dearly love to hunt the population of grouse i did when I was younger. Alas the ODNR does not care about critters that don't require us to buy a tag. I will miss those little birds dearly. Many a good time was had chasin those birds. They should not be huntable in ohio until they can get them to rebound and become relatively stable. I miss my grouse hunting buddies. I cherish my turkeys but understand they are also a main culprit to the grouse demise.
 

finelyshedded

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
26,490
5,137
178
SW Ohio
#19
I'm no wildlife biologists but i think the primary reason for what we assume to be declining grouse numbers was you guess it..... The abundance of acorns.. The grouse only had to lay in the cover with their mouths open waiting for an acorn to drop in their mouth like a baby chick... They moved less resulting in less scent for dogs and staying hidden in cover...

What's that you ask? What about last year??? Well see that was due to a lack of acorns.. The Grouse were concentrated in pockets that nobody stumbled upon because the rarest or rare acorns grew there.. As a result hunters and dogs couldn't find this covey of shoulder to shoulder birds... Don't believe me?? We'll, that's why less raccoons got killed on the roads this year, because the raccoons didn't have to travel as far this year to locate the ginormous coveys like last year..

Also.. Weather played a role in your ability to locate the ample bird population.. This year we had bad weather which resulted in many hunters staying home sipping hot coco and watching Oprah and leaving their expensive rain gear hanging in the garage.. They only bought that for show anyway... What's that you say? We used the same excuse last year yet killed more deer than this year? We'll yeah! Duh! It worked then too..


So... You see Kaiser... I'm not a State Wildlife biologist.. But I do learn... There is actually a overpopulation of grouse in the state. You just can't find them because your hunting the wrong property... Orrrrrrrr.... Maybe every bird dog in the state failed to adapt to the change in acorn production and weather patterns...


So.. We're going to keep the grouse limit the same next year and continue our goal of reducing the grouse overpopulation problem in Ohio.. Ohio continues to provide exceptional opportunities for grouse hunters with the availability of tags so cheap they're nonexistent.
PRICELESS!!! Very funny Joe!