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hickslawns

Dignitary Member
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40,471
288
Ohio
I really wish I had not read that. What a great way to end the day pissed off. That was a bunch of crap. Let me see: I have handicapped myself because it is "too easy" by hunting with my shotgun, muzzle loader, compound bow, and 44mag in the past. I do this to "handicap" myself? No, I do this in order to have EVERY option available to harvest deer. Maybe I do not harvest as many as I would like because I have lost interest since it is so easy? Nope. Not the case. Maybe I just suck. Maybe next Tonk can just come out and say all hunters suck and that is why they are not harvesting as many deer. Has he used that excuse yet?
 

brock ratcliff

Dignitary Member
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25,263
261
Biologist Mike Tonkovich, the wildlife division’s deer project leader, said it’s unlikely, though possible, that deer numbers are a factor. His statewide herd estimate of 750,000 before the start of bow season was as high as it has ever been.

The early season bow take, moreover, has decreased the past two years. The kill during the recently completed weeklong deer gun season, hindered greatly by weather, was down significantly. Tonkovich said that he was encouraged that the bow kill numbers, which were not publicized, had picked up going into gun week.

Still, he acknowledged that a lot of factors are in play that make interpreting any numbers difficult, although some known developments are worrisome. Among them:

• Hunters are aging and not being replaced. Older hunters are also less likely to expend as much time and effort to harvest a deer as younger counterparts.

• More and more land that once could be hunted is being leased or bought by well-heeled individuals or consortiums, effectively cutting opportunities for most.

• Some skilled and experienced hunters have taken to handicapping themselves in various ways in order to make the hunt more challenging.

Although it’s possible that what appears to be a trend might be an anomaly, Tonkovich said trying to get a handle on what direction the herd and the harvest are heading is fraught with unknowns.

The deer-check system, in which hunters can use the Web or make a phone call rather than physically report to a station, might be implicated in why the kill has seemed to decrease. Maybe hunters aren’t bothering to report.

Or, the cause, if indeed the trend is real, might be something less obvious, Tonkovich said. One possibility is deer are today so numerous that bringing one home from the woods or field doesn’t seem as much of an accomplishment as it did not so long ago. And, so, waning enthusiasm and a diminished sense of adventure might be in play.

Whatever the case, the bedroom window shot remains a novelty for now.






Just thought I'd put this up again. This part just pisses me off. I was giving him the benefit of doubt 'till now.
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
40,471
288
Ohio
Biologist Mike Tonkovich, the wildlife division’s deer project leader, said it’s unlikely, though possible, that deer numbers are a factor. His statewide herd estimate of 750,000 before the start of bow season was as high as it has ever been.

Keyword being "estimate". I give estimates. Sometimes I am high, other times I am low.

The early season bow take, moreover, has decreased the past two years. The kill during the recently completed weeklong deer gun season, hindered greatly by weather, was down significantly. Tonkovich said that he was encouraged that the bow kill numbers, which were not publicized, had picked up going into gun week.

Weather? Didn't we have crappy weather last gun season too?

Still, he acknowledged that a lot of factors are in play that make interpreting any numbers difficult, although some known developments are worrisome. Among them:

• Hunters are aging and not being replaced. Older hunters are also less likely to expend as much time and effort to harvest a deer as younger counterparts.

BS. Cob killed one this year. lol

• More and more land that once could be hunted is being leased or bought by well-heeled individuals or consortiums, effectively cutting opportunities for most.

I can find some validity in this statement.

• Some skilled and experienced hunters have taken to handicapping themselves in various ways in order to make the hunt more challenging.

Umm. . . no.

Although it’s possible that what appears to be a trend might be an anomaly, Tonkovich said trying to get a handle on what direction the herd and the harvest are heading is fraught with unknowns.

The deer-check system, in which hunters can use the Web or make a phone call rather than physically report to a station, might be implicated in why the kill has seemed to decrease. Maybe hunters aren’t bothering to report.

Once again bogus info. If they didn't drive them to a check station before, they aren't going to call them in now. However, it is so much easier with the new system, I do not find this to be a very good excuse. It is actually quite convenient.

Or, the cause, if indeed the trend is real, might be something less obvious, Tonkovich said. One possibility is deer are today so numerous that bringing one home from the woods or field doesn’t seem as much of an accomplishment as it did not so long ago. And, so, waning enthusiasm and a diminished sense of adventure might be in play.

Or just the opposite is true? So few deer (in certain areas) that guys are losing interest. Look at Jesse. Diehard hunter and he is ready to throw in the towel for deer and pursue waterfowl. While I have my own anomaly on ONE property, every other property I hunt have been void of deer this year. The deer I have seen on camera have been mainly nocturnal. I won't cry about it, but I won't deny noticing a drop off this year.

Whatever the case, the bedroom window shot remains a novelty for now.






Just thought I'd put this up again. This part just pisses me off. I was giving him the benefit of doubt 'till now.


Here are my thoughts. Let's just hope someone that matters is reading this and takes some notes. I won't complain about my hunting this year, but I can see why some have valid concerns.
 

finelyshedded

You know what!!!
Supporting Member
32,975
274
SW Ohio
Total BS!!! Has he even considered the fact he might have been wrong with the estimated deer herd numbers to begin with! It's like that's not even considered! WTH! Seems to me it would be the most logical!
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,183
274
I told yall it would do no good to reason with the idiot.. The only thing that will make him come to the table for any reason besides to spout bs is to force him...

Funny how he still "estimates" deer population numbers as what they were 4-5 years ago before his reduction efforts....

Basically this means one of three things..

1. He sucks at deer management and his reduction efforts have failed..

2. He has no clue about the deer herd..

3. He's a lying bastard.
 

rgecko23

*Supporting Member*
7,466
0
Massillon, Ohio
So Sat. I talked to 3 different hunters around where I hunt. Were we hunt is a big bowl, and the her basically runs around by us all. So if one of us sees a big buck chances are someone else has too. Some stay in a particular spot but most seem to run the bowl.

So they stopped cause they seen me on the side of the road and ask me how its going, been seeing any deer? yadda yadda yadda. I am asking them, we usually hear a ton of shots over your way, whats up? "Man, the deer just aren't here like they used to be 5-6 years ago. We have deer, but not nearly as many." That is pretty much the concensus I am getting from everyone.

They all said it was real hott around halloween, (which is what I said TOO), then it just died, all the deer dissapeared. Lots of buck sightings early on, hardly any doe, then none.

So tell me the deer #s aren't incorrect. Tuscarawas county always leads Ohio in deer numbers TOO....
 

brock ratcliff

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25,263
261
Just for curiosity sake, I looked up KY's annual kill. I love to hunt in KY, because I typically see WAY more deer, and there are some really good bucks there the same as there is here. Strangely, they don't try to kill every deer in the woods... Last year's total for KY, including archery and firearms was 110,000. They only killed 16,000 with bows. Go figure. Anyone think this is what some would term "sustainable management of a renewable resource"?

Before the trophy hunting bretheren start running off at the head about quality deer, I'll put my thoughts out there. Western KY is as good as any place in the States. Central Ky is dang near as good. In fact, all but the extreme southeastern mountains of KY produces a number of great bucks. Just thought I'd throw it out there that not all Fish and Game departments want to kill every deer in the woods, and therefore some places are still fun to hunt!
 

hickslawns

Dignitary Member
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40,471
288
Ohio
Brock- I have lots of relatives in SE Ky. Here is their consensus: Ton of deer. Not many "great bucks" but a few here and there. Come down and hunt. Probably won't put you on a monster, but we will get you on some deer if you just want to hunt.

My buddy hunts SW Ky. Darn good deer. Some of my relatives hunt central KY (Owens county I think?). darn good bucks there too.

Here is the part I am scratching my head. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't doe tags something like 2/$15? If I am not mistaken it is "unlimited" doe tags as well? Maybe this is just the area my buddy hunts? Maybe I was misinformed? Either way, they sure seem to have plenty of deer all over the state.

My plan is to start doing some KY hunts next year just to mix it up. I would love to hunt the rifle season just to experience something different. Nothing to do with the thread, but I am going to try it. Not because I think driving 5-6hrs to hunt is "fun", but it would be a change of pace to hunt with a rifle. I do find it odd that they offer such a generous doe harvest yet don't seem to have issues with deer numbers. This is puzzling.
 

Curran

Senior Member
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8,061
186
Central Ohio
The fact of the matter is that the DOW is now throwing every excuse they can grasp out there. Whether they're legit or flat out ridiculous. What they're not doing is taking any accountability. None what so ever.

It's the weather, the acorns, the corn, the slob hunters not checking their deer, the experienced hunter now using a sling shot & blow gun for an additional challenge, old hunters are dying, it's too easy to kill a deer so people are staying in their lazy boy, squirrels are breeding all the does, yada, yada, yada.... it could be the numbers are possibly impossible to calculate what is possible when faced with the possibility of knowing what the hell is going on. Possibly. There's many factors. Hey by the way have you seen Fear Factor is back on NBC? I think that is possibly playing into the factors of possibility as well. Hey, look over there....
 

brock ratcliff

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25,263
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Brock- I have lots of relatives in SE Ky. Here is their consensus: Ton of deer. Not many "great bucks" but a few here and there. Come down and hunt. Probably won't put you on a monster, but we will get you on some deer if you just want to hunt.

My buddy hunts SW Ky. Darn good deer. Some of my relatives hunt central KY (Owens county I think?). darn good bucks there too.

Here is the part I am scratching my head. Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't doe tags something like 2/$15? If I am not mistaken it is "unlimited" doe tags as well? Maybe this is just the area my buddy hunts? Maybe I was misinformed? Either way, they sure seem to have plenty of deer all over the state.

My plan is to start doing some KY hunts next year just to mix it up. I would love to hunt the rifle season just to experience something different. Nothing to do with the thread, but I am going to try it. Not because I think driving 5-6hrs to hunt is "fun", but it would be a change of pace to hunt with a rifle. I do find it odd that they offer such a generous doe harvest yet don't seem to have issues with deer numbers. This is puzzling.




Essentially, they have less people hunting, about half of what we do. You are correct on the doe tags. In areas, they are unlimited. Unlike Ohio, the herd is managed on a county by county basis. The urban areas are unlimited. The counties I hunt are a max of four deer. The real difference is the number of hunters IMO.
 

brock ratcliff

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A few years back, they estimated the herd in Ky to be 1.1 million. They believe they have it knocked down to 900,000. They feel they have done that through 60 percent of their kill being does. They kill half as many deer as we do, yet they feel they reduced the herd by 200k. According to our DOW, our herd has GROWN even though we have encouraged a wholesale slaughter of does. Who's right?
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
12,038
205
Mahoning Co.
Don't don't know anything about KY hunting but the last couple of years there were KY hunters on the forums warning us that the hunting there was screwed up because of Telecheck. :confused:
 

brock ratcliff

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25,263
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Very well could be off due to that. I hunted KY the first year they implemented telecheck. They want to know what WA you shot your deer on if it was public etc. They list the kills by WA on their results. The WA I hunted has dropped dramatically in numbers reported. A biologist down there told me that was due to a clerical error. I don't know...
 

Curran

Senior Member
Supporting Member
8,061
186
Central Ohio
How does the odnr get there estimated population count for the state?

That's the million dollar question right there. I don't know that I've ever come across the information that details how the estimates are determined. I do think that there is the involvement of a magic 8 ball.
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
Staff member
39,183
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That's the million dollar question right there. I don't know that I've ever come across the information that details how the estimates are determined. I do think that there is the involvement of a magic 8 ball.


And some chicken bones. It can;t be too accurate... 4 years ago tonk said the population was 750,000....... At the beginning of this season he estimated the population at 750,000.... We haven't reduced a single deer with all of these extra tags, bonus gun season, etc..