Who's shooting? Tuning? Tinkering?

[Milo]

Throwing rocks? Interesting perspective… I will help anyway … the line on the riser shelf means nothing… just a starting point possibly… and is sign that bow shops are so stupid they have to have the manufacturer tell them where to start… check your rest timing as well cause QAD break all the time.. I have replaced 4-5 of them from improper installation breaking them. In tuning you have to determine if what happened to the arrow is an action or reaction to something happening on the bow. A failing test can give you a stiff indication on paper tuning because as the shafts flexes, to rides on one side of the prongs and causes a reaction false positive.

 

[hickslawns]

There's a reason I bought my own equipment and do it all myself now. I was a victim once too.

You and many on here have done so and learned a lot from Milo and others here. Now you're one of the teachers. I just use it as an excuse to drive two hours to see Milo when my bow needs attention.

 

[Stressless]

Rgr that @jagermeister @Milo @bowhunter1023 et. Al.

Trying to get smarter and understand, I've tried to mine the Bowsite forum as well on tips and instructions but feels like it goes from arithmetic to calculus skipping algebra... somewhat frustrating.

Pls chalk the rocks up
as me being a grumpy bastard that knows he should be able to figure it out and didnt/can't. I am also conscious of other folks time so I had hoped to be fixed and shooting again instead of dragging this on/out and feeling like I wasted your guys time. The advice is great - my old bowshop, now closed, had a really great dude, Mark - he was gold. We'll see how this new one turns out.

My neighbor Cliff is a fine Bowyer and past 2x state champ competition shooter.

Talked to him last night as well and he's 100% with the big brains in here- WTF? Should have been a strait fwd tuning.

K - gonna wait on the new string setup and be back with any updates in a couple weeks.

Much appreciated.

-just copied Joe's steps below. Thank you sir.

 

[Jackalope]

You really have two options.

1. Purchase the needed equipment and learn to tune your bow for target shooting.
2. Fork money over to a bow shop and learn to live with a hunting bow that will kill deer at 40 yards but that's about it.

You likely don't want the bill that a bow shop would have to charge you for the hours it takes to correctly tune bow for target shooting. So I'll share the same information shared with me many years ago by Milo and jagermeister. Learn to do it yourself, or learn to live with it. Both of those guys and Brock were tremendously helpful when I started down the path of learning.

If you want to do it yourself here is how I would start.

1. Make sure your limb tension is correct. Crank it all the way down then crank it out evenly on both limbs until the desired weight it reached.
2. Put it on a draw bar and check idler wheel lean at full draw. correct it by twisting and untwisting yoke cables.
3. Even though it's a single cam bow make sure it's not over or under rotated. The cam should be marked for proper string location where it leaves the cam at full draw.
4. Check ATA length. If it's off, remove or add twists to BOTH yokes equally on the idler wheel.
5. Set your nock point and center shot. Some say 1/8 high. I would go with center.
6. Make sure your arrow is appropriately spined for your rig.
7. Get a notepad and a pen. Record the result and steps taken for all future steps.
8. Shoot a bare shaft through paper 3 times and compare the results. If they aren't consistent the problem is the shooters form. Get consistent tears before moving on.
9. If the tear is left - adjust the idler wheel lean by adding a half twist to the right side. Tear right add twist to the left side.
10. Adjust up and down tears by moving the rest up or down. If you felt it move you probably moved it too far. I like to barely loosen it and bump it with something. If you see a huge tear and correcting it with the rest would move you too far from center adjust the nock point.
10. Repeat as necessary until it's shooting bare shaft bullet holes through paper.
11. Next set your 20 pin at 20 yards with a bare shaft by moving the sight housing.
12. Next broadhead tune the bow. Shoot a fletched broadhead then the same bare shaft. If they don't hit together make very small rest movements to bring them together. by "very small" I mean human hair micro.
13. Walkback the bow. Shoot the same fletched arrow, using the same pin, at the same spot at 20, 30 & 40 yards. They should all fall in a line up and down.
14. Set your other pins by moving them individually.

​

 

[Milo]

Rgr that @jagermeister @Milo @bowhunter1023 et. Al.

Trying to get smarter and understand, I've tried to mine the Bowsite forum as well on tips and instructions but feels like it goes from arithmetic to calculus skipping algebra... somewhat frustrating.

Pls chalk the rocks up
as me being a grumpy bastard that knows he should be able to figure it out and didnt/can't. I am also conscious of other folks time so I had hoped to be fixed and shooting again instead of dragging this on/out and feeling like I wasted your guys time. The advice is great - my old bowshop, now closed, had a really great dude, Mark - he was gold. We'll see how this new one turns out.

My neighbor Cliff is a fine Bowyer and past 2x state champ competition shooter.

Talked to him last night as well and he's 100% with the big brains in here- WTF? Should have been a strait fwd tuning.

K - gonna wait on the new string setup and be back with any updates in a couple weeks.

Much appreciated.

-just copied Joe's steps below. Thank you sir.

You get your bow back yet?

 

[Stressless]

Thx @Milo - I picked it up on the way North last Saturday, since I got here I've been so damn busy and party lazy I haven't gotten it out. I shot it bare shaft at the shop and it looked ~ okay I want to test it right and haven't made the time necessary to do it properly. I am almost done with rye planting both my plots and my neighbor Cliff's plots as he's bow hunting elk in Colorado currently. Which is an excuse- thank you for the push!

 

[PSE13]

A little late too the party but I decided to switch up arrow set ups this year. Built a set of GT Hunter XT 300 spine. Using 100gr insert in the front. Total weight comes out to about 498-500 grains an arrow. Big difference compared to my old set up at 370 grains.

 

[Milo]

Did you use the 100 grain insert or did you use the weights that screw into the back of the standard insert?

 

[PSE13]

I used the 100 grain inserts. There’s still a spot to score in more weight on these if wanted

Did you use the 100 grain insert or did you use the weights that screw into the back of the standard insert?

 

[PSE13]

Can’t have anything nice

 

[Stressless]

Here's the update / calculus and variables on where I'm at. I was hoping my neighbor Cliff, who has all the equipment and is a master archer, would get back from his CO elk trip before I left TOO and we'd go over it. I didn't know his buddy also drew an elk tag in that CO 61 unit. They've been there, hunting for 19 days as of yesterday. His buddy had four shots at bull elk and missed each opportunity so he didn't make it back before I left OH - I didn't buy/ship the bow press etc I'd need to do it myself in TOO beccause I didn't want to drag it back home, Cliff in OH has all the gear - and see the other variables below.

So now I'm back home and the bow is still not tested out per Joe's excellent enumerated steps. Nor have I purchased the 2 or 3 items required to properly tune it. I got to step 2 and need that gear.

My back is somewhat to much better then in July but I don't know how many, if any seasons I may have left with a vertical bow, saw the neuro surgen yesterday and reviewed the MRI's and EMG (nerve conduction study) on the right shoulder/arm/hand and well, it's faq'd, been faq'd since I got med'vacd from Afghanistan in '10, been augering in since that time and will continue to deteriorate. How much, how soon, is a guess.

This season I won't be 'archery' hunting until late Oct. There's time to still dial it in and do it, tune it, 'right' or buy a crossbow and see where I am next spring with the back and right side.

I don't know that I have the bandwidth in physical stamina with my back and right side to shoot it thru the paces to get it tuned in correctly. That'd be after I get the press and such to actually do it. If I was young // LoL like 40 it'd not even be a consideration. At 58 with diagnosed slant that I'm not gonna be able to enjoy shooting, or even draw a VBow, "in the future", I'm wondering if I'm just lighting money on fire buying gear for equipment (V Bow) or just bag it now.

Not making a decision is a decision, I get that. Also when I was shooting and had the right kicking arrow, it was just after the major back right arm issues thur Jun/Jul and so I'm now wondering if my form is just so bad, just to be able draw it back, that that's the major flaw. My form grip etc that's setting everything askew. I reread many pages and in fact @bowhunter1023 's opening post on this thread talking to his form it's imortance made me rethink what's going on.

All this, "indecision" is new to me and I deeply appricate the guidance and views that have been shared. My recalcitrance is in no way a reflection on the wisdom dispenced.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Last day of the first week of the season and I'm building arrows and tuning my bow Obviously, I'm way behind where I'd like to be after spending a lot of time tuning other people's bows before the season, then not really expecting to hunt much. Then this weather hit and I got caught with my pants down. Spent all summer messing around with different arrows weights/lengths/configurations and finally settled on a 30" Axis 5mm 300 with a 75-grain insert, 125 grain heads, custom TOO wrap with a 3" Fusion 4-flech with slight offset, and a Nocturnal lighted nock. Weighing in at 595 grains and an FOC around 12%. Need to wait on things to dry, then I can finish tuning and sighting in. Should be good to go by the weekend!

 

[giles]

Some times as adults and parents we don't get to do what we want. You'll be alright.

You have also learned about how sometimes less is more. You'll be just fine

 

[jagermeister]

@bowhunter1023 we’ve got four months of deer season to go… you’ll be fine. I know the weather has everyone more pumped up than usual, but things aren’t even close to really getting good yet. Get your stuff together and settle in.

I’m not much better. I just screwed broadheads on for the first time just before my hunt two nights ago. Lol. Sometimes flying by the seat of our pants is the most productive and enjoyable method in the end.

 

[Stressless]

Did what I could without the press (and Joe's step by step above)and wound up getting the fletched and bare shaft to hit in the same place... but it's so far right (close the burger hole) my drop away is almost brushing it and the sight can't accommodate impact that far off to the right .... So I'm making the 2 hour roundtrip trek to the bowshop tomorrow AM to either work it out or start looking for 'something else'. I'll post up if the result is warrented - if we can get it to Straiten up and Fly right, also as to what he heck is the cause. Bought the bow new in 2010 and never had any issues like this.

Found this 'guide' and it helped me understand what you pros have described. https://eastonarchery.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/TuningGuideEaston.pdf It may help others that are interested. My guess is there's debate in what's in the article but it covers a wide gamut of tuning issues.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Arrows 1-3 were form checks/baseline shots. Did what I always do and went the wrong way on 4 and 5 Got a bit better on 6 and 7 after fixing cam lean and adjusting my rest. #8 was almost perfect. #9 was . Sure makes that press a justifiable expense when you can do this in 15 minutes!

 

[Stressless]

Dang skippy! 2 questions Jesse.

1. What decent bow press and weight measure would you recommend?

2. How did you diagnose a cam lean, what did you do to fix it? Align it?

Thx! For me I don't think its possible to get equipped as a Bowyer and be proficient this season. But as a excuse to get some more equipment and be proficient for turkey season that's probably where I'll aim.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Dang skippy! 2 questions Jesse.

1. What decent bow press and weight measure would you recommend?

2. How did you diagnose a cam lean, what did you do to fix it? Align it?

Thx! For me I don't think its possible to get equipped as a Bowyer and be proficient this season. But as a excuse to get some more equipment and be proficient for turkey season that's probably where I'll aim.

1. The EZ Green Press from Last Chance Archery is what I have and I'm super happy with it. It would be nice to have one with a foot pedal, but I spent the money I saved on a manual press and bought their Draw Board. The two together have paid for themselves in trade and time already. Shocker here, but I also own their Bow Scale 2.0 as well.

2. I misspoke and should clarify that I was dealing with idler wheel lean, not cam lean. I'm shooting a single cam Mathews, but the physics are the same (mostly). You can eyeball the lean by looking down the string from the bottom end of the bow. You can also run an arrow parallel to the string to see if it's leaning. Per spec, it should be level. You can tune for left/right tears by "yoke tuning". For nock left tears, add twists to the right yolk. For nock right tears, add twists to the left yolk. However, there can be a point where you've over-twisted and have lean, which means your centershot probably wasn't right to begin with. I was 1/8" off with my centershot (wrong chart), so once I corrected that and leveled the idler wheel, that was shot #8. I added 3 twists to the left yoke and that was shot 9". My bow has always had a touch left lean that settles out at full draw, so enter the draw board to see that in motion and know that at full draw, my bow is right where it needs to be.

 

[jagermeister]

1. The EZ Green Press from Last Chance Archery is what I have and I'm super happy with it. It would be nice to have one with a foot pedal, but I spent the money I saved on a manual press and bought their Draw Board. The two together have paid for themselves in trade and time already. Shocker here, but I also own their Bow Scale 2.0 as well.

2. I misspoke and should clarify that I was dealing with idler wheel lean, not cam lean. I'm shooting a single cam Mathews, but the physics are the same (mostly). You can eyeball the lean by looking down the string from the bottom end of the bow. You can also run an arrow parallel to the string to see if it's leaning. Per spec, it should be level. You can tune for left/right tears by "yoke tuning". For nock left tears, add twists to the right yolk. For nock right tears, add twists to the left yolk. However, there can be a point where you've over-twisted and have lean, which means your centershot probably wasn't right to begin with. I was 1/8" off with my centershot (wrong chart), so once I corrected that and leveled the idler wheel, that was shot #8. I added 3 twists to the left yoke and that was shot 9". My bow has always had a touch left lean that settles out at full draw, so enter the draw board to see that in motion and know that at full draw, my bow is right where it needs to be.

This brings up a good question in my head. What is more impactful to the shot?… Cam lean at full draw, or cam lean at brace?

I’ve always made it a point to eliminate cam lean at brace, and I don’t really pay attention to any lean or lack thereof at full-draw. My thinking behind that is - the arrow is coming off the string at brace (or just past brace), so that’s where I want my cams/idlers to be parallel with the string. Am I wrong there? Or does it really even matter? @Milo

 

[bowhunter1023]

Milo has done a lot of virtual tuning for me over the years via phone. One takeaway from those convos has been aligning the bow to be directly in the power stroke at full draw. So you're trying to make sure all bow alignment items end up being directly behind an arrow that's in the proper position with regards to its alignment (and specs). Benchtop tuning only gets you so far, but firing the bow gets you all the way there, which is why I'd say tuning to full draw is the right approach. But I'm far from an expert on this. We've entered grad school with this convo!