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Numbers.. Ohio's 2011-12 White-tailed Deer Season -8%

Jackalope

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Bottom line is everyone needs to work together on this of you wanna see something changed. Bickering amongst yourselves and throwing harsh insults at one another isn't gonna solve anything, it's just gonna make you all look like fools. Get your facts together and present them with the numbers and ask them to explain. Don't go in looking for a battle, go in looking for a resolution.


Agreed... But here is something i don't think yall understand.. These discussions on this site aren't meant to be the crusade.. TOO is not the tip of the spear, just the tip of the iceberg.. This is just discussions around numbers, open dialog, and bickering, in reality it gets us nowhere.. Don't think this is my method to achieve the goal.. The meek are ignored in these type of games. Government bodies rarely listen unless you have them by the balls first.. I'm not going to show my hand until it's time, I'll just say a thread on TOO is piddly compared to the scope and direction I want to take this..
 
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Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,994
205
Mahoning Co.
There has been a change in attitude among many hunters in the last 30 years about killing little bucks. Partly as a result of that there are many more trophy bucks killed now then 30 years ago. So I believe hunters can change what is happening, maybe not quickly as a law but it still has an affect.
 

Jackalope

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There has been a change in attitude among many hunters in the last 30 years about killing little bucks. Partly as a result of that there are many more trophy bucks killed now then 30 years ago. So I believe hunters can change what is happening, maybe not quickly as a law but it still has an affect.


Yes it can happen the same as it's happened with bucks... Soon as we create organizations like "Monster does" "Doe Masters" "Slick head collectors" "Buckeye Big Doe Club" The P&Y and B&C club start adding trophy does. And 4000+ other TV shows and magazines that have inspired the big buck craze.. When we start to see Trophy does plastered on every piece of merchandise then maybe we can make the same thing happen.. :) That is what's caused hunters to stop shooting smaller bucks and let them grow.. If you could somehow do that with does we would be all set.. Maybe we can convince people that Doe hooves are trophies, and the bigger one is the cooler they are..

So let them does grow so you can be the next Michael Wattle "Hoof Collector".

lol I kill me sometimes.... lmao ...
 
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epe

Senior Member
6,113
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Lancaster
Jim, you now are gonna get your pee pee spanked for that comment.

Heres the way I see it folks.....If you dont think there are enough deer then there is only one thing you can do....STOP SHOOTING THEM! No ifs ands or buts....If ya didnt have extra money would you go buy a new car????? Resorting to shooting button bucks is not a logical practice either....Because then you just took one buck from your herd that could have been your shooter in 3 or 4 more years....

Everyones taste is different..I dont have to see deer every sit...Some do..but what I do know is, if I felt I wasnt seeing the deer I was in the past, I would implement changes to my practices to counter it.

Quit hunting tuscy county then come talk ;)
 

Ohiosam

*Supporting Member*
11,994
205
Mahoning Co.
Yes it can happen the same as it's happened with bucks... Soon as we create organizations like "Monster does" "Doe Masters" "Slick head collectors" "Buckeye Big Doe Club" The P&Y and B&C club start adding trophy does. And 4000+ other TV shows and magazines that have inspired the big buck craze.. When we start to see Trophy does plastered on every piece of merchandise then maybe we can make the same thing happen.. :) That is what's caused hunters to stop shooting smaller bucks and let them grow.. If you could somehow do that with does we would be all set.. Maybe we can convince people that Doe hooves are trophies, and the bigger one is the cooler they are..

So let them does grow so you can be the next Michael Wattle "Hoof Collector".

lol I kill me sometimes.... lmao ...

You're easily amused Joe ;-)

Actually negative peer pressure can work too. If your buddies give you crap for killing does it takes some of the fun out of it. OK Joe knowing you pissing off your buddies probably makes your day but for most of us it's something we avoid. :smiley_coolpeace:
 

Jackalope

Dignitary Member
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You're easily amused Joe ;-)

Actually negative peer pressure can work too. If your buddies give you crap for killing does it takes some of the fun out of it. OK Joe knowing you pissing off your buddies probably makes your day but for most of us it's something we avoid. :smiley_coolpeace:

I am easily amused... lol And I tried that negative peer pressure stuff.. You might get one or two to go along, but most don't change. I tried telling them guys forever on the lease in VC.. They would all agree, shake their head yes, say they won't do it.. Then come opening day of gun. Bam.. 15 fuggers out front, pockets full of shells and ready to go... . Screw it.. Got tired of trying.. Gave up and had fun shot the shit out of what deer i could find, then left... I set foot on that property once this year for about a 2 hour walk through the woods.. The lease president called me all in a hissy about how they don't have deer.. "I tried telling you that dude."
 

JD Boyd

*Supporting Member*
3,173
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Urbana
Jim, you now are gonna get your pee pee spanked for that comment.

Heres the way I see it folks.....If you dont think there are enough deer then there is only one thing you can do....STOP SHOOTING THEM! No ifs ands or buts....If ya didnt have extra money would you go buy a new car????? Resorting to shooting button bucks is not a logical practice either....Because then you just took one buck from your herd that could have been your shooter in 3 or 4 more years....

Everyones taste is different..I dont have to see deer every sit...Some do..but what I do know is, if I felt I wasnt seeing the deer I was in the past, I would implement changes to my practices to counter it.

I wonder how many times I have tried to make this point????... Let me ask the wall in front of me....
 

Jackalope

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.

And how many times must we point out that in the scope of things that point is illogical....

Print these out and put them on said wall... lol Dang man, killing me here...

While I don't disagree with you, I will pose a question. Do you honestly think if Joe Blow and Joe Blow only was to start passing on deer because he is seeing less, that it would truely make a difference? If he is hunting a very large farm where he can control the herd, then possibly, but how many people have 500+ acres strictly to themselves. It's easy to say, "If you think the population is dwindling, then don't kill anything," but one person isn't gonna make a difference. If we had enough people in this state that that cared and had the knowledge to self-regulate when it came to managing the herd, we wouldn't need bag limits. But sadly, there are people out there that assume since they can legally kill 6 deer in Zone C, that they can do this for 10 years and expect things to be as good as they were before. Too many people have to rely on the on those bag limits to govern how many they kill strictly because they have no idea about the deer population, or maybe they just don't care.

Zach.. You are one person.. You do not have the power to influence that on any significant level. Good luck getting enough people to follow this logic that it makes a positive impact...... If I could get every person on this site to agree to never shoot another doe it wouldn't change a dang thing in the overall scope of the population.. If hunters as a whole we're capable of doing what you just proposed we wouldn't need the ODNR at all.. They could close up shop and make hunting a free for all, and according to your logic we would be just fine.. It just doesn't work that way buddy.. We NEED the ODNR to enforce rules that conserve the population.. "We" as hunters reduce populations, not grow them.. What you're saying makes about as much sense as saying "Raise the buck limit to 6, I'm sure hunters will police themselves and do what's right for the deer".. You might Zach, but you know the overwhelming majority will not... That line of thinking is a pipe dream and full of fairy dust.
 

bowhunter1023

Owner/Operator
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Appalachia
I guess I just need to shut my mouth and keep my hunting stories to myself. Otherwise people will jump to conclusions and consider me a hypocrite. This is like arguing politics and religion...
 

Jackalope

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39,121
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But I have so much money and time wrapped up in my barrel that I keep my bucks in....I dont know what I would do if my hunting wasnt like "shooting bucks in a barrel."

I'm sorry, who said you have your bucks in a barrel and don't work for them? Can you provide a quote?
 

brock ratcliff

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But I have so much money and time wrapped up in my barrel that I keep my bucks in....I dont know what I would do if my hunting wasnt like "shooting bucks in a barrel."

I usually don't bother to reply to these...but just this once I have to. What are you talking about?
 

jagermeister

Dignitary Member
Supporting Member
18,284
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Ohio
I guess I just need to shut my mouth and keep my hunting stories to myself. Otherwise people will jump to conclusions and consider me a hypocrite. This is like arguing politics and religion...

Come on dude... You know nobody here wants you to quit sharing your stories. I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions, man... It's just a matter of perception. Some people perceive things differently than others. And you're absolutely right, this IS like arguing politics and religion.
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
I usually don't bother to reply to these...but just this once I have to. What are you talking about?

Synonymous with shooting fish in a barrel!
The notion that I have it easier than others, as its been implied.....THat I live in the mecca of it all.... And if 95% of the people who hunted the so called "prime" areas I hunt, then they would be just as successful.... Just the usual slander thats thrown out when people have a lack of knowledge about the situations and areas I hunt....I wish I had prime areas......I wish I had more than 1 buck a year to hunt that I would consider a "shooter" for myself.... If indeed the areas I hunt were so prime, then my dad would have killed a buck this year..... Along with the several other people that I invited to hunt for several days in a row......
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
I'm sorry, who said you have your bucks in a barrel and don't work for them? Can you provide a quote?


I suppose I probably could, but i dont have the time to dig...nor the access. :smiley_coolpeace:
Not the mention a lot of it was verbal slander....
 

Kaiser878

Senior Member
2,633
97
ohio
I'm sorry, who said you have your bucks in a barrel and don't work for them? Can you provide a quote?

From the "Down" thread, page 4.

You quoting something I said!



Originally Posted by Kaiser878
I dissagree with chad. I do think ur whining. If you were concerned you would contact the dnr and be heardsitting on here and bitching on a public forum because you can't see or shoot a deer is a perfect.example of whining. If your having trouble try something different. If what your doing isn't working then change it and stop whining and bitching.

I get so tired of hearing about how I live in a prime area and hunt prime ground and that's the only reason why I shoot big bucks. I share ground with other people and I am getting line hunted like crazy. Yet these other people are not killing these bucks. Why is that? Me and my.buddy are the only ones who consistently kill big bucks in our town
And I bragging? No.but I won't sit here and listen to people blow off about why I kill big bucks or why chad kills big bucks and they don't. then try to use the excuse that we are only successful because we are hunting in places that are prime and overrun with huge bucks. You couldn't be more wrong ..but what I am saying is this. There are deer there. Are your numbers down? Maybe I don't know. I personally don't give a shit. Adapt to your surroundings and hunt and stop bitching. But you won't listen to what I say...because people like u think they know it all and Guys like me are arrogant dicks. I have a feeling if you were not bitching about deer numbers it would be something else.
I shot a big one this year.. And i will tell you right now it was 95% Property..... Period.... I find it amazing how I can hunt Vinton county for 5 years like a crackhead spending hundreds and hundreds of hours on a stand and never even tag a P&Y deer.... Yet I spend 129 hours on a stand in Champagne county and have a deer in the 130's, 140's and 150's all in bow range and end up shooting one that was in the 160's.... I passed on deer you yourself said you would have shot.. property. property, property.... Period. Just like you, there are other people hunting these properties... The don't shoot big ones, same as the people that hunt yours.. Sure I hunt smarter then them.. But that's them..... You, Me, JD, Gern, or any of the others that have tagged a big one this year, aren't better hunters than a single person here... We just hunt better properties, that doesn't make you or us some super smart Mr. Whitetail. You can't kill what's not there, doesn't make the person who hunts there any less smarter than you........ . I guarantee you that if you took one guy from here and put them on your property 99% of the guys on this board would drag a big one out... Don't believe that? I'm living proof of it! JD took me out of Vinton and put me on one of his so/so properties.. 130, 140, and one 150 in bow range before the rut! Take it from a guy who's hunted both ends of the spectrum bud... I ain't shit, You ain't shit, Jd ain't shit, Gern ain't shit..... What we ARE is lucky to hunt property that IS the shit...





No, I dont believe that... But there are circumstances...If I told them where to go, showed them what trees, then maybe...even then, hardest part is to actually make a good shot on the deer, not get winded, not get seen... etc....

If I walked the property boundries with them and gave them free reign, then no!!!!! Id say it would drop from 99% to maybe 10% or less.
 
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Jackalope

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Show me where I said you don't work your ass of for it or shoot fish in a barrel????

The post above is in reference to not being able to shoot what's not there.

If property has nothing to do with it and you are so awesome I have one in vinton county you can hunt.

Better yet. I'll pay your dues there and you can have free reign of all 1,000 acres of prime whitetail habitat all season. All I ask for is the same in return. What do you have to lose? You work your ass off and the property has nothing to do with it right... Should be able to drag a P&Y out of there before gun season. I on the other and at your place will likely be staring at leaves right?

Nobody has ever said you don't earn every buck you kill and it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel... But on the other hand Nobody is dumb enough to believe the quality of the property has ZERO to do with it either.
 
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epe

Senior Member
6,113
93
Lancaster
I suppose I probably could, but i dont have the time to dig...nor the access. :smiley_coolpeace:
Not the mention a lot of it was verbal slander....

Just be thankful you didn't hunt up there back when my dad and grandpa did.. Seeing a deer was a rarity.. Game birds galore though... I had, and have a ton of relatives up there. One of two big bucks I have had a chance of shooting and messed up on, was within a stones throw from the Tuscy river. Having hunted both Tusc., and Wash. county, they are not the same..... Not just my thinking, the numbers show it too.