Numbers.. Ohio's 2011-12 White-tailed Deer Season -8%

[Milo]

No, I am trying to keep this as simple as possible. Just going by hunter kills, nothing else. To me, almost 7 deer per square mile getting shot seems like a lot of deer to this flatlander, when comparing my county that only kills just over 2 deer per square mile.

If you take away unhuntable ground, then your number goes up, up and up......

The ENTIRE point of all of this is exactly this point Gern...THE MATH IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SHIT YOU PUT IN THE EQUATION!!!............this is what i don't think you guys are getting..You put shit in you get shit out...Thats what we have been fed and the real number which i eluded to will likely scare the hell out of you. But some how Zach thinks were supposed to know that 12 deer per square mile are getting shot...that's not our job nor should it be. I am betting in washington county it is around 15 per square mile...easily....and its no wonder jesse has not been seeing deer.

 

[Gern186]

thats kind of a false number because you missing ALOT of huntable property like towns and villages let a lone houses and roads...you probably looking at 12 deer per square mile killed. did you factor in road crashes in kill totals?

Yeah, I know that.

I am trying to see where 7-12 deer to be available to kill per square mile isn't enough for you guys, that's all. It has been higher than that in previous years I know, but it is still a lot of deer available to be hunted and killed.......go ahead and flame me.

 

[Milo]

Yeah, I know that.

I am trying to see where 7-12 deer to be available to kill per square mile isn't enough for you guys, that's all. It has been higher than that in previous years I know, but it is still a lot of deer available to be hunted and killed.......go ahead and flame me.

I cannot flame ignorance. You need to get out and experience more of ohio's diverse habitat...

 

[bowhunter1023]

Whatever it is would mean the end result will be much higher than 7 deer per square mile killed......if that isn't enough then I can't imagine what would be.

But how do you know that 7 deer per square mile is a good number? What's the number for the Top 5 counties in the state? Is it even a relevant number? In my mind because of its subjectivity, it is not a number worth debating. It may very well be a "good" number in comparison to the counties you hunt, but a shit number when compared to counties similar to Washington in terms of all the variables that you can incorporate in to the equation. I don't know Chad. All I know is if you had hunted my areas for the past 11 years, you'd be less likely to question what this number is and should be. Same goes for me hunting anywhere else in the state...

 

[Gern186]

The ENTIRE point of all of this is exactly this point Gern...THE MATH IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE SHIT YOU PUT IN THE EQUATION!!!............this is what i don't think you guys are getting..You put shit in you get shit out...Thats what we have been fed and the real number which i eluded to will likely scare the hell out of you. But some how Zach thinks were supposed to know that 12 deer per square mile are getting shot...that's not our job nor should it be. I am betting in washington county it is around 15 per square mile...easily....and its no wonder jesse has not been seeing deer.

That further proves my point Milo, evidently there are guys down there that are seeing and killing deer or the numbers wouldn't check out.

 

[Gern186]

Any county that kills 4,000 5,000 or 8,000 deer to me absolutely blows my mind........I am used to seeing less than 1,000 killed in my county.

 

[Milo]

That further proves my point Milo, evidently there are guys down there that are seeing and killing deer or the numbers wouldn't check out.

What really is your point gern cause i'm not really seeing it.

 

[Gern186]

I cannot flame ignorance. You need to get out and experience more of ohio's diverse habitat...

Check that.

I hunted Richland county this year, a county that has a very comparable kill rate to Washington County. I was stunned beyond belief on the quality of deer hunting there was outside of NW Ohio. Maybe I was in a good spot, maybe not. All I can say is that I saw what seemed like deer almost everywhere I drove around. You guys should come up and hunt NW Ohio some time, then we will see how much you complain about hunting where your'e at.

 

[bowhunter1023]

That further proves my point Milo, evidently there are guys down there that are seeing and killing deer or the numbers wouldn't check out.

Do you even understand how prevalent party hunting is down here? It would blow your mind. I can take you to 3-4-5 deer camps that are rolling 10-15-20 deep with multiple (up to 6) tags in their collective pockets and they'll fill nearly all of them. One kid killed something like 11-12 deer in one year! It happens ALL OVER this county. It is "state facilitated" poaching IMO and it no doubt inflates that magical "deer killed per square mile" number.

 

[Milo]

Check that.

I hunted Richland county this year, a county that has a very comparable kill rate to Washington County. I was stunned beyond belief on the quality of deer hunting there was outside of NW Ohio.

Very good...spend some more time there and then we can talk. How many out of stater plates did you see in gun season there.. I lost track at 30 when i drove around for 2 days in washington..

 

[Gern186]

But how do you know that 7 deer per square mile is a good number? What's the number for the Top 5 counties in the state? Is it even a relevant number? In my mind because of its subjectivity, it is not a number worth debating. It may very well be a "good" number in comparison to the counties you hunt, but a shit number when compared to counties similar to Washington in terms of all the variables that you can incorporate in to the equation. I don't know Chad. All I know is if you had hunted my areas for the past 11 years, you'd be less likely to question what this number is and should be. Same goes for me hunting anywhere else in the state...

Hell I don't know Jesse, not going to do all the math. I just did the simple math equation and asked a simple question.

 

[Gern186]

Very good...spend some more time there and then we can talk. How many out of stater plates did you see in gun season there.. I lost track at 30 when i drove around for 2 days in washington..

I don't gun hunt, but I can tell you for a fact that Washington County is much closer to West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucky than Richland County is........Maybe you guys should be lobbying for non-resident tag prices to double or triple, hell I don't know. If all the out of staters are the problem and killing all the deer off, lets get rid of some of them by raising prices.

 

[jagermeister]

Whatever it is would mean the end result will be much higher than 7 deer per square mile killed......if that isn't enough then I can't imagine what would be.

I think I know what they're saying, Chad... They're saying unhuntable land in that it's land you can't hunt but the deer can still occupy, i.e. deer that pretty much can't be killed. I'm guessing there isn't much of that in Washington County, but I could be wrong. But, what Chad is saying, guys, is that if you subtract the actual hardscapes from the total county acreage (roads, parking lots, buildings, etc) then that would make the deer density greater. There probably isn't much of that down there either, so those two probably almost cancel out. Almost 7 deer killed per square mile does seem like quite a few, but I'm sure the same argument applies that "if there's 10 you can kill 4, if there's 4 you can still kill 4."

BTW, in high-quality habitat (like most of Ohio), I think carrying capacity for deer is over 20 per sq. mile. In urban areas and fenced in areas (NASA Plumbrook, Ravenna arsenal) it's not uncommon for densities to approach 100 or more per square mile. NASA Plumbrook is the only place I've been in Ohio where I've truly seen the effects of a deer population at or above the carrying capacity of the land.

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

Check that.

I hunted Richland county this year, a county that has a very comparable kill rate to Washington County. I was stunned beyond belief on the quality of deer hunting there was outside of NW Ohio. Maybe I was in a good spot, maybe not. All I can say is that I saw what seemed like deer almost everywhere I drove around. You guys should come up and hunt NW Ohio some time, then we will see how much you complain about hunting where your'e at.

You were in a very good spot. Not saying that there's not a considerable difference between NW, Mid, and SE, but that area of Richland is a honey hole...

 

[Gern186]

Very good...spend some more time there and then we can talk. How many out of stater plates did you see in gun season there.. I lost track at 30 when i drove around for 2 days in washington..

I have turkey hunted in that county for over 10 years and plan to continue deer hunting there.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Check that.

I hunted Richland county this year, a county that has a very comparable kill rate to Washington County. I was stunned beyond belief on the quality of deer hunting there was outside of NW Ohio.

And therein lies the blinders that causes you and I to butt heads on this issue. I respect the hell out of you Chad and you would hunt circles around me on land I've hunted all my life, so I have no room to question your skills. But man, this is a different world down here. What is good for you, is not necessarily going to be good for us...

 

[Jackalope]

Check that.

I hunted Richland county this year, a county that has a very comparable kill rate to Washington County. I was stunned beyond belief on the quality of deer hunting there was outside of NW Ohio. Maybe I was in a good spot, maybe not. All I can say is that I saw what seemed like deer almost everywhere I drove around. You guys should come up and hunt NW Ohio some time, then we will see how much you complain about hunting where your'e at.

You're missing about 90% of the equation buddy.. So what is Washington killed 4000 and where you lived killed 1000.. What if you have 1/4 the number of hunters! What if your guys are more city type weekend warrior hunters vs backwoods way of life hunters who hunt 4x more days. What if more wv residents hunt there than where you live.

Goes back to the point we've made 1000 times. Harvest. nmbers mean very little without the bigger scope. If both counties have 10 deer per mile and you're guys are killing 2. While jesses is killing 6.5 well no shit you're going to have more deer... Jesse is killing too many, you aren't. But if you follow kill numbers to set the zone he belongs in C and you in B.. But in reality it should be the other way around as he is killing too many and you aren't.... Kill numbers are NOT a viable measure of population or setting zones. Yet the dnr has done just that. Look back at the counties they moved to B from A it's pretty damn obvious they are only using kill numbers to make those decisions. Which IMO is why we're in this mess in varying areas.

 

[Gern186]

Do you even understand how prevalent party hunting is down here? It would blow your mind. I can take you to 3-4-5 deer camps that are rolling 10-15-20 deep with multiple (up to 6) tags in their collective pockets and they'll fill nearly all of them. One kid killed something like 11-12 deer in one year! It happens ALL OVER this county. It is "state facilitated" poaching IMO and it no doubt inflates that magical "deer killed per square mile" number.

Yeah, that's BS Jesse.

But for a kid to kill 11 or 12 deer there must be deer there to be had......somewhere.

 

[bowhunter1023]

Hell I don't know Jesse, not going to do all the math. I just did the simple math equation and asked a simple question.

Problem is, there is no simple answer...

I don't gun hunt, but I can tell you for a fact that Washington County is much closer to West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucky than Richland County is........Maybe you guys should be lobbying for non-resident tag prices to double or triple, hell I don't know. If all the out of staters are the problem and killing all the deer off, lets get rid of some of them by raising prices.

I would love to know the numbers, but I would be willing to bet that WV hunters have doubled since the addition of bonus gun and extra tags in Washington County. It is mind-boggling to see the trucks that show up to join the orange army here. I've been asking for increase NR prices for years, I have no hope it will ever happen. But it would do us a world of good to thin out the NR hunters in this county...

 

[Gern186]

You're missing about 90% of the equation buddy.. So what is Washington killed 4000 and where you lived killed 1000.. What if you have 1/4 the number of hunters! What if your guys are more city type weekend warrior hunters vs backwoods way of life hunters who hunt 4x more days.

Goes back to the point we've made 1000 times. Harvest. Umbers mean very little without the bigger scope. If. Oth counties have 10 deer per mile and you're guys are killing 2. While jesses is killing 6.5 well no shit you're going to have more deer... Kill numbers are NOT a viable measure of population.

Doesn't matter if you hunt 1 day or 30 days Joe........a tag filled is a tag filled. Personally I prefer not to kill a deer everytime I enter the woods. There are plenty of hard core hunters up here, the only difference is most of the guys up here still have some of their teethlmao

And kill numbers over a length of time certainly could help you determine deer population. If there are over 4,000 deer killed in a given area over a length of say 10 years, then the numbers are being sustained IMO.