Numbers.. Ohio's 2011-12 White-tailed Deer Season -8%

[Jackalope]

Mrex told me there was some talk of using thermal imaging to determine density in the near future. The expense seems to be holding the DOW back. I think it would be a great expendeture of the funds they saved by producing crap tags and using telecheck (which was supposedly done to save money). I say if the system you are using is flawed, and another proven system is available, you need to spend the funds you are allocated for a job to do the job well.

They're broke as a moth fugga... The DNR made 56 mil this year and spent 59.. Betting on 3 mil from the feds next year in reimbursements to cover the deficit. Basically they went to check star and got a payday advance to carry their ass through last year..

 

[Jackalope]

It is not a good idea for any employee of any division of wildlife to suggest using contraception to manage a deer population.

A population estimate is indeed important. As has been pointed out, how do you know when you have reached the goal?

Pointing out Fayette and Madison Counties as being different than surrounding counties is bunk. The entire western portion of the state looks exactly like Madison and Fayette...Some of the south western portion is a bit hillier, and has a bit more cover, but the majority of the region is comprised of small wood lots and large ag fields. What the article should have pointed out is that we have already killed the majority of the deer in Fayette, and still hope to wipe out the remaining herd in the rest of the region.

You guys crack me up, already knowing the author's life history is nothing short of comical.

Don't worry.... Someone is currently comparing tillable, wooded, and city acreage by county.... If his statement is true he will be asked why it wasn't followed in counties of similar geographic makeup that showed similar declines... By percentage.

 

[epe]

Going to ODNR meetings and expressing yourself is good but that is only one side of the equation. If you want to change things sportsmen need to let elected officials know their feelings also. Otherwise yelling at employees of the ODNR is like yelling at the waitress because your meal is bad. Might be a place to start but she doesn't have the real power to solve the proble..

I plan on hitting up the officials trail soon.

 

[brock ratcliff]

They're broke as a moth fugga... The DNR made 56 mil this year and spent 59.. Betting on 3 mil from the feds next year in reimbursements to cover the deficit. Basically they went to check star and got a payday advance to carry their ass through last year..

If that is the case there is obviously a problem with the person in charge of their budget. In my little business, I don't spend more than I take in. Maybe I'm doing something wrong there. You would think they would increase non-resident lic fees as many seem to think we need to do. You would also think it is in the best interest of the DOW to guard the remaining herd. There certainly aren't folks coming to Ohio to grouse or phesant hunt. The squirrel population has again rebounded, maybe we should be marketing that resource on the cover of North American Squirrel.

 

[xbowguy]

If that is the case there is obviously a problem with the person in charge of their budget. In my little business, I don't spend more than I take in. Maybe I'm doing something wrong there. You would think they would increase non-resident lic fees as many seem to think we need to do. You would also think it is in the best interest of the DOW to guard the remaining herd. There certainly aren't folks coming to Ohio to grouse or phesant hunt. The squirrel population has again rebounded, maybe we should be marketing that resource on the cover of North American Squirrel.

I'll Co-Sign That!

 

[Ohiosam]

They're broke as a moth fugga... The DNR made 56 mil this year and spent 59.. Betting on 3 mil from the feds next year in reimbursements to cover the deficit. Basically they went to check star and got a payday advance to carry their ass through last year..

The year before though they were claiming that governor Strickland ordered their budget cut 10% like every other state agency. Even though the Division of Wildlife money mostly comes from license sales, fines and Pittman Robertson not the general fund. The 10% was supposed to go into a savings account. Wonder if they still have that money or where did it go?

 

[Huckleberry Finn]

The squirrel population has again rebounded, maybe we should be marketing that resource on the cover of North American Squirrel.

How many hunters does it take to harvest-eradicate a woodblock of squirrels? As J would say...I'm going rabbit hunting!

 

[Jackalope]

How many hunters does it take to harvest-eradicate a woodblock of squirrels? As J would say...I'm going rabbit hunting!

Bet he has a chart for that.. lmao

 

[brock ratcliff]

Reading this article again, he (Tonk) is stating the wild card is "effort". Wouldn't it be a pretty strong indicator that with added days of shotgun season, the effort is naturally increased? I mean seriously, I would have to say to myself " In 95, we killed 115k deer in 6 days, 11 we killed 90k in 7" I would assume that would indicate a trend....

 

[mrex]

Because I don’t completely disagree with you, I’m going to give this one more shot.

What is your objective? It sounds to me like you want more deer in Ohio or at least more targets where you hunt. You’re convinced that the ODNR is only interested in appeasing farmers and insurance companies and really doesn’t care about the wishes of the deer hunter. If I understand you correctly, you don’t care so much about big deer, you just want more deer. Do you want the DOW to change its deer management objectives? If they do, will your objectives be met? Here are a couple quotes from the beginning of this discussion, (from the site admins only and by no means the most obnoxious I’ve read over the past few years).

Basically here is what happens. The farmer takes the blame, the hunter gets lied to too make him think we have too many, the deer get slaughtered, insurance companies that lobby politicians are happy. In return the politicians are happy, they don't pressure the wildlife council, and the council and director not only keeps the biologist who keeps up the charade they give him many awards.

Stupid acorns... Stupid weather... Stupid hunters failing to adapt to a deers changing food sources.. What other excuses have they give us? Oh yeah! Stupid squirrels not getting ran over cause they don't have to travel as far for food.

The bottom line is. We were sold a hill of beans to make us go along with the herd reductions. The very people we trusted, used us to screw ourselves.

Its bullshit? They made it up? They don't have the slightest fucking clue what the actual number is?!?

The GW's are fucking worthless. I've called ours 3 times now on the poaching issues out here and still have not heard back. Flat ass pathetic...

Saw it. It's disgusting. Here that Tonk?!? Disgusting...

If DOW officials read this forum, do you think statements like this help your cause? Put yourselves in their shoes…would this make you more or less likely to rethink your position? Personally, if I was with the DOW and read these statements, I would be quick to dismiss you as the lunatic fringe. No need to remind me about your upcoming campaign to rally the troops. I think you guys have some good ideas but the “internet badass” stuff really needs to go away.

Several years ago, Mike Taylor, the Law Director for the ODNR told me, “Rex, it’s not what you say but how you say it that pisses people off.” As I got older, I began to realize how right he was. It is true, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Cary on…

 

[brock ratcliff]

I just wish my personal sightings mirrored the growing deer herd. I'm telling ya, I should be in high-cotton. I don't think I had more than a half dozen hunts through the entire second half of the 90's where I didn't see a deer. Now that we have so many, I have a heck of a time finding them.

My frustration (if your question is directed at me, Mrex) is stated right here. How is it we can have so many more today by the DOW estimates, (which are no longer of any use in determining how many tags should be issued or how liberal seasons should be). I realize personal perception is subject to incorrect interpretation, but I don't think mine is off. This is one reason why I ask everyone I come in contact with on the matter...I know not to trust my own judgement due to rose colored glasses syndrom.

 

["J"]

Mike I agree with you on your catching flies with honey statement and I too have learned over the years that it works much better.... but the folks we are talking about work for us.... not the insurance companies not the farmers association but for the hunters who buy the tags and equipment that taxes are sent their way.... so when I have an employee that isn't living up too his potential I sometimes have too put a foot up their derrière too get the results you want to see.... have you had experience with troublesome employees? If so you get my drift..... sometimes the softer approach works and sometimes it doesn't and this time I think it won't.....

 

[bowhunter1023]

I won't rescind anything I've said thus far. This is my/our playground and I tailor my thoughts to this crowd; not who "might" read this. I refuse to pussy foot around and play PC here on TOO. I'll save that for the more "public" debates to come. I think we've proven the number was bullshit; I'm still disgusted; and our GW still hasn't proven his worth IMO.

 

[Beentown]

No reason to use kid gloves (honey) when your obviously being misled. We all go about buying the used car with differing methods...

 

[mrex]

My frustration (if your question is directed at me, Mrex) is stated right here. How is it we can have so many more today by the DOW estimates, (which are no longer of any use in determining how many tags should be issued or how liberal seasons should be). I realize personal perception is subject to incorrect interpretation, but I don't think mine is off. This is one reason why I ask everyone I come in contact with on the matter...I know not to trust my own judgement due to rose colored glasses syndrom.

I said internet "badass"...not "dumbass" :smiley_blink: You're considerably more restrained when expressing your opinion.

 

[brock ratcliff]

You always know how to make me feel special...

 

[epe]

So mike, you know Tonk better than the rest of us, and you say to use honey.. How should we voice our frustrations? You didn't want more surveys sent in, he said not enough were sent in. If I do not like how my mayor is running my town, I vote to get him out of office. What do I do if I don't like the people managing our deer heard?

 

[hickslawns]

Mrex- You certainly don't have to admit all your opinions publicly, but I will express my opinion.

Stupid acorns... Stupid weather... Stupid hunters failing to adapt to a deers changing food sources.. What other excuses have they give us? Oh yeah! Stupid squirrels not getting ran over cause they don't have to travel as far for food.

I can't say I agree with this being ridiculous. These were all excuses listed by the ODNR to explain why the harvests have been down. The excuses were not limited to the ones listed either. As a hunter, it is a bit frustrating to have the finger pointed at us for being the reason the numbers are down. Is this some of the "honey" you were referring to? To me this did not attract flys, but rather seemed to have stirred up a hornets nest.

I am concerned. I am not as fired up as some of the others. However, I have always hunted in counties with low deer harvests anyway. Why am I concerned then? Umm. . . how about the increased bag limits. Has me scared to death we are going to turn into another Fayette county. Outside of one property we have managed for deer, I am not seeing the deer. This concerns me. Because of this, I feel EPE made a great question. What methods do you recommend? What would be effective in getting the attention of the decision makers?

 

[mrex]

So mike, you know Tonk better than the rest of us, and you say to use honey.. How should we voice our frustrations?

Respectfully. It helps you to be taken seriously and greatly increases your chances for a positive change.

You didn't want more surveys sent in,

No...I said the division only wants surveys from the randomly chosen and hopefully unbiased hunters who received them. You're still more than welcome to make yourself heard.

What do I do if I don't like the people managing our deer heard?

You call in the WVDNR...they've really got their shit together over there...:smiley_crocodile:

 

[epe]

Respectfully. It helps you to be taken seriously and greatly increases your chances for a positive change.

No...I said the division only wants surveys from the randomly chosen and hopefully unbiased hunters who received them. You're still more than welcome to make yourself heard.

I was one of the chosen ones..